Odd Crashing Issue : IV

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:40 am

Evening (or morning depending on which portion of the globe you inhabit), fellow forumers! I loaded up Oblivion today and stumbled across an issue I've never encountered before: the game freezes whenever I attack an object. I've tried whacking tables with swords, stabbing chairs with daggers, firing upon wooden doors with bows at point blank range, and the game never fails to freeze. Now, I can still attack creatures and people and empty space just fine. Also, it should be noted that when I fire an arrow towards something from a distance, it doesn't stick in the material as it normally would.

I'm not crashing to desktop here, the game just freezes with a still shot of my character in the middle of an attack animation with the background music still playing. I haven't installed anything lately that I would think would cause the issue. It happens with vanilla and modified weaponry.

Here's the load order I'm running on:

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
CM Partners.esm
HorseCombatMaster.esm
ScreenEffects.esm
TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp
TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Better Cities .esp
QuietFeet.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp
Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp
It's A Wig!.esp
Shdw_Armor pack01.esp
Shdw_Armor pack02.esp
Shdw_Armor Set_Sotonhorian.esp
Slof's Male Clothing.esp
LevelerCheat.esp
IndigoArmor.esp
Slof's Horses Base.esp
AncientTowers.esp
Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp
Lem - Celestial Lagoon.esp
xuldarkforest.esp
xulStendarrValley.esp
xulTheHeath.esp
XulEntiusGorge.esp
xulFallenleafEverglade.esp
xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp
xulChorrolHinterland.esp
xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp
Castle_Almgard-V2.esp
xulBravilBarrowfields.esp
xulLushWoodlands.esp
xulAncientYews.esp
xulAncientRedwoods.esp
xulCloudtopMountains.esp
xulArriusCreek.esp
xulPatch_AY_AC.esp
xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp
xulPantherRiver.esp
xulRiverEthe.esp
xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp
xulImperialIsle.esp
xulBlackwoodForest.esp
xulCheydinhalFalls.esp
xulAspenWood.esp
Bag of Holding.esp
Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp
Alternate Start Revamped.esp
MidasSpells.esp
sr_spell_deletion.esp
Spellbooks.esp
RenGuardOverhaul.esp
RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp
CTAddPose_v_1.esp
actors_in_charge.esp
ActorsInMadness.esp
77_Umpa_Animation.esp
EFGAddPose.esp
shinyEmotions.esp
CM Partners.esp
NexonsArmoryENG.esp
Smuggler Outfit.esp
Colonial Clothing.esp
Better Cities Full.esp
Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp
BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.esp
Better Imperial City.esp
Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp
Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp
MIK_SummonCompanionRing_v1.0F.esp
Slof's Boners! v5.esp
Slof's Victorian Clothes.esp
Slof's Even More Male Things.esp
BCCheydinhalFULL-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp
BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.esp
Slof's Epona.esp
AlchemistsCave.esp
Slof's Devil.esp
HorsesTurnFaster.esp
sixyWitchPoses.esp
Slof's sixy Anims.esp
Screenshooter's Illumination.esp
Enchanted Picture Book.esp
Lockbreaker.esp
Nords With Beards.esp
Leviathan Soulgems.esp
Slof's Stuff For Wizards.esp
Slof's Playable Xivilai.esp
ScreenControls.esp
CTAddPose_Le01.esp
Kosai's Welkynd Armor.esp
ActorsInEmotions.esp
StandingJOJO.esp
Moonshadow Hair.esp
Safer Roads v1.0.esp
Ancient Elven Sorcerer - EV.esp
Moonshadow Elves - Sc.esp
KorokMain.esp
Silverlight Armor by Jojjo.esp
No Quest Items.esp
dunadan.esp
Shadowcrest_Vineyard.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:49 pm

I'm reasonably sure that load order needs to be BOSSed. Some stuff does not look right, namely some of the UL patches, I believe CM partners is loading too late, a few other things.

BOSS the load order, rebuild the bashed patch. Test.

gothemasticator

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:30 am

I disagree. I've been sorting my load order by hand for four years now. BOSS tends to mess my things up, and I've rarely bothered with it. I have a method to my sorting that I'm quite comfortable with.

CM Partners loads where it does because it doesn't need to be any higher up. All of the mods preceding it are cosmetic, animation, landscape, and tweak mods. The mod is also followed by several race mods which I have personally modified to include companions. It's location in the load order is very intentional.

Somehow I feel that the issue lies somewhere outside my load order. I didn't have this problem before and I've only added races and a couple outfits recently. Everything else has been there for quite a while and I don't see why they'd affect the way weapons interact with certain meshes. I haven't installed any mesh overhauls either. :unsure:

I'm somewhat baffled by this, to be honest.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:14 am

On the contrary, I would indeed suspect load order or install order for the type of problem you report.

If you wish to sort out your load order your own way, be my guest. TES4Edit is going to be your best friend in tracking this down.

If you don't like BOSS, though, you're going to get less help, maybe still some help, but less, because BOSS is widely used, supported by many of the people best able to help you sort this out, and etc.

gothemasticator

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:08 am

Using BOSS, taking note of its advice, and then sorting (some of it) by hand if necessary is by far the best procedure. IME, anyway.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:22 am

Using BOSS, taking note of its advice, and then sorting (some of it) by hand if necessary is by far the best procedure. IME, anyway.

Most users do not have enough understanding of their mod lists to do much in that respect. I rarely have to tweak by BOSS list, and I run over 300 mods, near to 400. All I have done with BOMM is move the SM group to load after LAME and add definitions for some unknowns. The BOSS team has more knowledge about mod placement than most users. Modify the list at your own risk...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:24 am

I read the readmes for every file I download and place them where the author requested or wherever it seems most logical to have the ESP. Through this method and much trial-and-error, I've learned what should go where and how my individual mods affect the game. Of course, there is always the chance that I've made a mistake, but I'm more likely to spot the issue since I'm the one doing the sorting. BOSS was made to assist people with the ordering of FCOM in relation to certain other mods and overhauls, not to be some kind of ultimate mod-sorter. In fact, the mod's download page says "it isn't a complete solution to load ordering issues as there are far too many mods out there (estimated at about 30 thousand)."

More on topic, I seem to have come closer to discovering the issue with my game. After I disabled Deadly Reflex (which loads at the very end of the load order after the Bashed Patch as Sky Captain suggests), the issue resolved itself. I'm going to try reinstalling the mod (perhaps it's a little outdated) and see where that leads me.

EDIT: Ah, seems there's a hotfix that takes care of freezing in certain games. I'll give that a try before reinstalling completely.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:02 am

BOSS's suggestions are often more current than what you will find in mods' Read Me files because mods may be outdated, the BOSS team keeps current with Wrye Bash, etc. BOSS used to be largely for FCOM, but, as you have seen (I guess), the FCOM-specific masterlist is no longer supported. The ordered list that BOSS sports grows by the week. If you really know how to sort load orders, spotting issues with BOSS's ordering should not be a problem. I review the BOSS log after running it on my setup as well, and I am very familiar with my load list. I check it with TES4Edit as well. BOSS is seen as something akin to an ultimate sorter. FCOM users are not the only ones using that utility, not by a long stretch...

Do you have DR's hotfix installed?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:46 am

Well, in the end, I do somewhat enjoy sorting my load order by hand because it's a part of the modding routine I've spent the past few years developing and honing. I just don't feel the need or desire to teach myself a whole new program when I'm managing just fine on my own. Load order issues are the least of my problems. Yes, BOSS might make things simpler once I have it all configured and updated, but when you invest a lot of time and care into something like this, it makes the game a little more fun to play. The rest of you may use the utility to your heart's content, but please respect my choice to not jump on the program's bandwagon.

Returning to the topic once more, I've fixed my issue with Skycaptain's hotfix ESP. I made a clean save, reactivated the ESP, reconfigured the mod, and saved again. I'm now running the game with no issues.

Thank you everyone for your contributions and advice.

EDIT: I've just noticed I named the thread incorrectly. :laugh:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:44 am

Most users do not have enough understanding of their mod lists to do much in that respect. I rarely have to tweak by BOSS list, and I run over 300 mods, near to 400. All I have done with BOMM is move the SM group to load after LAME and add definitions for some unknowns. The BOSS team has more knowledge about mod placement than most users. Modify the list at your own risk...

Well, I did say "if necessary" and "IME", and meant both.

I've generally found that it misses at least a couple*, and therefore I've had to do a bit of ordering here and there. I also started using mods without BOSS at hand, so I don't know - slightly different perspective to begin with?

* And yes, I usually remember to inform the BOSS team in their current thread.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:25 pm

Well, in the end, I do somewhat enjoy sorting my load order by hand because it's a part of the modding routine I've spent the past few years developing and honing. I just don't feel the need or desire to teach myself a whole new program when I'm managing just fine on my own. Load order issues are the least of my problems. Yes, BOSS might make things simpler once I have it all configured and updated, but when you invest a lot of time and care into something like this, it makes the game a little more fun to play. The rest of you may use the utility to your heart's content, but please respect my choice to not jump on the program's bandwagon.

Returning to the topic once more, I've fixed my issue with Skycaptain's hotfix ESP. I made a clean save, reactivated the ESP, reconfigured the mod, and saved again. I'm now running the game with no issues.

Thank you everyone for your contributions and advice.

EDIT: I've just noticed I named the thread incorrectly. :laugh:

I saw that mentioned the fix a little too late, haha...

Well, I did say "if necessary" and "IME", and meant both.

I've generally found that it misses at least a couple*, and therefore I've had to do a bit of ordering here and there. I also started using mods without BOSS at hand, so I don't know - slightly different perspective to begin with?

* And yes, I usually remember to inform the BOSS team in their current thread.

That works (when you know what you're doing) you two are not exactly average users...