Inside or Outside

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 pm

What kind of places do you enjoy adventuring the most at in TES? Personally, I'd like One huge city, possibly another two or three cities the size of the ones in Oblivion, and then some villages and towns. Not that every city is the exact same size thing in Oblivion. I can't say which I'd like more of Civilization or Wilderness. And if your wondering about the Indoor or Outdoor Dungeons what I meant by Outdoor, I meant like a camp in the forest, or a wooden fort full of bandits, something along those lines. More stuff aboveground. So I would like an even mix of Underground Dungeons and Above Ground dungeons. The underground ones would be more dangerous and creepier, possibly containing vampires, but have more valuable treasure.
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Laura Richards
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:32 am

I like a nice mix between civilization and wilderness. I like the energy and luxuries of a city, but also the beauty and sereneness of nature.
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Julie Ann
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:28 pm

I like a nice mix between civilization and wilderness. I like the energy and luxuries of a city, but also the beauty and sereneness of nature.


I have to agree there, and the same goes for the ratio of cities to larger settlements as well. Of course, the proper balance depends somewhat on where the action takes place, I expect a game in a heavily developed province such as say, Cyrodiil to put more emphasis on urban environments than one set in Black Marsh, but the game needs a mix of both. Though in general, there should be some large citis in more populated areas with small settlements (I'm thinking more along the lines of the small towns in Morrowind like Maar Gan, Pelagiad, or maybe places like Khuul than the tiny things consisting of three houses that passed for "villages" in Oblivion.) spread out throughout the world. I also hope to see more in the way of farms than we got in Oblivion, because it was kind of absurd that the people of Cyrodiil could have enough food to eat just from what little farming the game showed. I don't need the game to have a completely realistic amount and size of farms, but I want enough that it at least gives the illusion of a functional society.

As far as outdoor dungeons, I guess an example of an outdoor "dungeon" would be something like Kvatch in Oblivion, since the cities, while in separate world spaces from the outside world, still were counted as exterior cells. If that's the case, while there could be a few instances of those for special situations, like say, to use Kvatch as an example again if you have a quest to help take back a city overrun by hostile forces (Obviously it was Daedra in the case of Kvatch, but the hostile force could be replaced with something else depending on the needs of the story.) but as a whole, I think I'd prefer most dungeons to be in-doors. Maybe it's an old school way of thinking, but when I play an RPG, I usually want a different sort of experience in dungeons and outdoor areas, I like my dungeons to be dark, creepy places, often under ground, though I actually wouldn't object to more dungeons being in above-ground structures like a castle or tower. Having an exterior area just wouldn't have the same feeling even if you fill it with monsters.
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lexy
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:00 am

The whole "point" to an underground "dungeon" is that you are restricted to a very clearly defined set of paths, creating a mostly "linear" sequence of passage, even in an otherwise non-linear sandbox game. Except for a few tightly confined or "artificially defined" areas in large cities, like a twisted maze of alleyways with unusually limited access, long and winding water channels, or castle wall and/or rooftop routes, it is difficult to put those kinds of restrictions on mobility that make a "dungeon" work. When you can casually or accidentally stroll into the area from any direction and encounter the "end boss", without having "run the gauntlet", it sort of makes the whole "outside dungeon" thing pointless. Having one or two such unusual situations can work well in a game; having the game primarily based on them would probably feel forced. It's far easier and more credible to put it underground or indoors, where there is little or no argument about where you can or can't go, and why not.

That said, I'd be happier seeing more above-ground "building"-style "dungeons", and less winding caves and underground passages, even though both would be "indoors". Clearing out a castle or a large manor house could be just as difficult and interesting as a subterranian labyrinth, although there would typically be several ways of getting from "point A" to "point B", rather than only one convoluted route through the maze. Do you charge in headlong and storm your way past the guards and up the main staircase, or sneak around looking for a back stairwell?
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Ross Thomas
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:30 am

I like to be able to spend time in cities and be able to do something other than sell loot so I like quests that take place only in town (and wandering in sewers doesnt count). its a nice change of pace after a long dungeon crawl. Morrowind and oblivion both did a good job with city quests but for TESV more wilderness quests would be great. Like another suggested bandit camps ,that are more than a tent and 2 highwaymen, would make exploring the wilderness more exiting.

Im not a big fan of traditional dungeons, not because theyre boring or linear or anything like that but because they usually give me the creeps.
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:03 am

The whole "point" to an underground "dungeon" is that you are restricted to a very clearly defined set of paths, creating a mostly "linear" sequence of passage, even in an otherwise non-linear sandbox game. Except for a few tightly confined or "artificially defined" areas in large cities, like a twisted maze of alleyways with unusually limited access, long and winding water channels, or castle wall and/or rooftop routes, it is difficult to put those kinds of restrictions on mobility that make a "dungeon" work. When you can casually or accidentally stroll into the area from any direction and encounter the "end boss", without having "run the gauntlet", it sort of makes the whole "outside dungeon" thing pointless. Having one or two such unusual situations can work well in a game; having the game primarily based on them would probably feel forced. It's far easier and more credible to put it underground or indoors, where there is little or no argument about where you can or can't go, and why not.

That said, I'd be happier seeing more above-ground "building"-style "dungeons", and less winding caves and underground passages, even though both would be "indoors". Clearing out a castle or a large manor house could be just as difficult and interesting as a subterranian labyrinth, although there would typically be several ways of getting from "point A" to "point B", rather than only one convoluted route through the maze. Do you charge in headlong and storm your way past the guards and up the main staircase, or sneak around looking for a back stairwell?


The first paragraph goes against everything i want in a open sandbox games. I dont want to HAVE to do anything. i'd rather be able to try and find a way to sneak around kill the guy im looking for and sneak out or just blast through them all depending on how patient im feeling. So aboveground all the way for me. But above ground doesnt mean you dont ahve to run the "gauntlet". if its above ground the boss could be in the middle of the encampment instead of the end of the cave so you still ahve to find a way to the middle. But this way maybe one side is more of a bottleneck with warriors on a killing ground, while another is open area with archers all around, and a third is a mix. It lets you choose which is more conducive to your fighting style, so you can have more fun fighting the way you want to but still fighting the gauntlet. There could also be an underground root into the middle of the aboveground castle, or a backdoor thats hard to get to but loosely gaurded. It opens up all sorts of possibilities besides fighting from point A to point B killing the endboss and wandering back agian.
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Josee Leach
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:43 pm

I like a nice mix between civilization and wilderness. I like the energy and luxuries of a city, but also the beauty and sereneness of nature.

This is it for me. It just gives my favorite animal more places to stalk its prey, whether it's a mouse, or, well... you.
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Jessica Thomson
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:33 am

I would like cities instead of villages and a lot more civilization than wilderness. If I had to pick, I would pick the inside dungeons although I would like both inside and outside dungeons.
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joeK
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:37 am

Outside. I'm sick of nearly every quest involving a dungeon of some sort
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CHangohh BOyy
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:18 pm

The first paragraph goes against everything i want in a open sandbox games. I dont want to HAVE to do anything. i'd rather be able to try and find a way to sneak around kill the guy im looking for and sneak out or just blast through them all depending on how patient im feeling. So aboveground all the way for me. But above ground doesnt mean you dont ahve to run the "gauntlet". if its above ground the boss could be in the middle of the encampment instead of the end of the cave so you still ahve to find a way to the middle. But this way maybe one side is more of a bottleneck with warriors on a killing ground, while another is open area with archers all around, and a third is a mix. It lets you choose which is more conducive to your fighting style, so you can have more fun fighting the way you want to but still fighting the gauntlet. There could also be an underground root into the middle of the aboveground castle, or a backdoor thats hard to get to but loosely gaurded. It opens up all sorts of possibilities besides fighting from point A to point B killing the endboss and wandering back agian.


The first paragraph of my post is a description of what a typical video game or RPG "dungeon" is, and why it's made that way, not necessarily what I'd want to see in future games. Ideally, I'd rather see more options for different types of characters, several possible routes, and some small degree of random variation in what you face to keep it interesting the second and third times through, but that's a lot harder for the developers to set up well. Doing so in an outdoor environment, where you've got to allow for several different approach directions as well as several different sets of skills, becomes exponentially more difficult to manage. It can still be effective in "controlled" circumstances, as in a narrow pass, a forest clearing with heavy undergrowth limiting movement in most directions, or any other situation where you only have a limited number of routes to consider, but having a large hostile encampment with a "boss" or other objective surrounded by varying groups of opponents would be a major problem to create and have function in a manner that's "playable" by anything other than a "stealth" character, while still remaining credible. No sane warrior is going to charge straight into an enemy camp and take on the entire army single-handedly at once, and any game that allowed you as a mere mortal to do so and survive would be a joke.

That's why I mentioned about options such as charging the heavily guarded main staircase or sneaking around looking for a less-watched back stairwell; you've got two entirely different approaches to the problem for two entirely different styles of play, but channelled enough to be "play-balanced" without a monumental amount of development. A skilled enough negotiator should be able to bluff, charm, or bribe his way past most of the guards to get closer to the objective without fighting, and a magic user should have several options both with and beyond those approaches, either by using magic to augment stealth or personality, or by utilizing a combination of levitation and offensive spells to simply bypass most of the main defenses and then incinerate the rest. The "standard" approach to dungeons, where you just fight your way past one "checkpoint" after another, gets really old in a hurry, and OB's usual "back door exit" to almost every sizable dungeon was only a way of avoiding having to backtrack all that way through the carnage you left on your way in.
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Sharra Llenos
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:01 am

villages cause they are intimate and you get more engaged in quests (if done right)

wilderness cause of the great unexpected and because of beauty

and indoor cause they are scarier and much more mysterious.
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Joie Perez
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:50 am

I personaly like cities, but I've got more love for the small villages scattered about. Their smaller and seem to have something about them that is more engaging then a large city that I only use to fast travel to to sell my loot. No wonder that I prefer the wilderness. Can go anywhere and do anything while seaching for dungons. I like both indoor and outdoor to be honest, but indoor for me.
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Lyndsey Bird
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:07 am

I love me some good designed cities and landscapes. :)
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Emma
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 am

Outside. It's amazing. In the main room, you can't even see the ceiling!
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Tinkerbells
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:03 am

What kind of places do you enjoy adventuring the most at in TES? Personally, I'd like One huge city, possibly another two or three cities the size of the ones in Oblivion, and then some villages and towns. Not that every city is the exact same size thing in Oblivion. I can't say which I'd like more of Civilization or Wilderness. And if your wondering about the Indoor or Outdoor Dungeons what I meant by Outdoor, I meant like a camp in the forest, or a wooden fort full of bandits, something along those lines. More stuff aboveground. So I would like an even mix of Underground Dungeons and Above Ground dungeons. The underground ones would be more dangerous and creepier, possibly containing vampires, but have more valuable treasure.


Pretty much what you said. I did vote for villages over towns though. I didn't like how Cyrodiil had cities and random inns, but only a handful of villages to visit (and I believe fewer of them than actual cities). I wouldn't mind having them in the wilderness, connected by rough dirt tracks off the main road. An above ground fort to take on would be awesome. I liked fighting for Battlehorn Castle, but I wish I had to seriously clear them out of the castle itself or at least on the ramparts. And a connecting dungeon of doom would be even better. As long as they shake things up by fort design, at least. What about some ancient manors like Crowhaven, or giant crypt-cities (as in city of the underworld style)? Just gimme something so I don't enter a fort and go "Okay, light-armored bandits, spike traps, and maybe some mages and daedra. I got this.".
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OnlyDumazzapplyhere
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:10 pm

You need a bit of both, but I'm really hoping that Bethesda strives to do some really interesting architecture in the cities of TES V. They need to be a lot less uniform. Many old medieval villages in our world began as a cluster of homes built around a lord's manor or other fortified structure. The buildings shouldn't be all uniform (and in some cases, grid-aligned) as they are in current Elder Scrolls games. That gives the implication that the cities were fully constructed during one point in time, and there has been minimal change in population and services. Cities have to have more developed and "polished" areas in conjunction with new settlements farther outward.

Additionally, I'd like to see cities have more verticality. I really liked how you could climb on the ramparts of a city in Daggerfall and then jump from roof to roof - you still can in Morrowind and Oblivion, but that's about the only way to get around other than walking on foot. Especially if the next game is in a majestic locale such as Skyrim or Summerset, I'd love to see lots of towers and high-rising catwalks winding throughout the cities, instead of everything just being flat.
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Kat Stewart
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:01 pm

Villages in the sense of Pelegiad and what not, wilderness and outdoor.
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Fluffer
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:59 am

Cities, Civilization, outdoor dungeons.
  • Cities
    - Because we need huge stuff like vivic and the emperial city.

  • Civilization.
    - Because we need more people, more crowd.

  • Outdoor Dungeons
    - pretty much because we already have dungeon stuff covered, and bandit camps would be awesome.

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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:29 pm

I think they should have like 2-4 IC or Vivec like cities but with more villages, maybe some with a large cathedral and/or a citadel.
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Marquis deVille
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:14 pm

Outside. It's amazing. In the main room, you can't even see the ceiling!


Do you have any idea how big a ladder you need when the light bulb on the ceiling burns out?

Anyway, the last few games had a noticable lack of small villages and homesteads. Morrowind was understandable in that regard, because the island was only recently opened for settlement, and quarantined even more lately, but in Oblivion it made no sense that there were only a handful of small cities (plus the IC) and even less villages in the entire "vast" province, and the rest was nothing but scattered instances of burned out ruins. It looked like the aftermath of a lost war, not like a thriving civilization just past its peak.

I'd like to see a couple of "defend the town" type missions, where you either stop an attack by force, forestall the attack by assassinating one of the plotters or stealing vital items or plans, reason or coerce the leaders into not attacking, use magical or other means to do any of several things to break up the attack, or make it pointless for the attackers to do so (such as by solving the attackers' problem, so they don't NEED to attack the town). You might even side with the attackers, depending on your character's motivations and the reasons for the attack.
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Jade Payton
 
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