Supreme Magicka Spell Level Problem : IV

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:22 am

I'm having a bit of a problem with Supreme Magicka and I don't know what's causing it. Basically Fire Ball and Hail Storm have suddenly become expert level spells for me. I'm pretty sure at one point they were journeyman spells, as they should be. When I look at Fire Ball with TES4Edit, the spell cost is supposed to be 143 which would make it a journeyman level spell. However in game, it says it's an expert level spell. What's really weird is I also have Kyoma's Spell Renamer and that still has it listed as (D3). If I look at Supreme Magicka in the CS, I can see that Fire Ball is set to auto-calculate and the cost is listed as 154, which would indeed make it expert level.

Any idea what would be making the game calculate this spell with a higher spell cost? I see that SM has several spells with the auto-calculate flag on, so I don't think in general this flag should be off. Besides, I'm pretty sure it was working at one point. I am also running Oblivion XP, so I don't know if that is interferring or not.

Here's my mod list:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  MD_Saddle_Master.esm02  Ulrim's Horses.esm03  bookplacing.esm  [Version 1]04  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp05  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.5]06  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp07  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]08  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp09  QuietFeet.esp0A  Storms & Sound.esp0B  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp0C  ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp**  CM_Better Wine.esp0D  Encyclopaedia Cyrodilica.esp0E  ImprovedSigns.esp0F  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.7]10  RAEVWD Imperial City.esp  [Version 1.7]11  Harvest[Containers].esp12  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.4.3]13  Improved Hotkeys_Extended.esp  [Version 1.1]14  DLCOrrery.esp15  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]16  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]17  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp18  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]19  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.30]1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp1B  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1C  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp1D  Darkgreen Glass Armour.esp1E  Ethereal - Armor Imperial Legion Edition AR.esp  [Version FINAL]1F  FineWeapons.esp20  RustyItems.esp21  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp22  Slof's Horses Base.esp23  Slof's Extra Horses.esp24  HRMHorseArmor.esp25  Dude Wheres My Horse.esp26  MD Saddlebags v3.0.esp**  Ranokoas Organized Potions.esp27  Enhanced Quest Roleplaying.esp28  Amajor7 Imperial Furniture.esp29  ArmoryLab.esp2A  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp2B  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2C  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.30]2D  DLCFrostcrag.esp2E  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2F  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.2]30  Ulrim's Horses.esp31  Knights.esp32  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]33  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]34  Ulrim's Horses - Knights patch.esp35  The Lost Spires.esp36  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]37  NoHFailure_HFlora.esp38  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]39  AutoBookPlacer.esp3A  gardening.esp3B  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]3C  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.1.0]3D  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp3E  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]3F  Quest Award Leveller - Knights Of The Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]40  Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp  [Version 3.0.1]41  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.89]42  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]43  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]44  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]45  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]46  Oblivion XP.esp  [Version 4.1.5]47  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

I'm actually running .89b of Supreme Magicka.

Thanks...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:15 am

If you find the answer to this let me know. I have the same problem. I have a journeyman shock spell that occasionally becomes an expert spell. Later, it will inexplicably return to being a journeyman spell. Same with a conjuration spell I use so it is not just destruction spells or custom spells. The magicka cost to cast the spell gets recalculated somehow but I cannot figure out why.
I am using Supreme Magicka .90

I see that we both use Quest Award Leveler. Maybe that's the problem.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:30 am

I don't think it's Quest Award Leveller because that only affects items and spells like Wizard's Fury or Finger of the Mountain. Actually SM and QAL use the same levelling mechanism for those spells, so you can disable the levelling of those spells in one of those mods. I believe QAL has Wizard's Fury and Finger of the Mountain disabled by default, so I'd just leave it that way. One thing I noticed was a comment about disabling SM's skill progression if you start seeing weird behaviour. Since I'm using Oblivion XP, I have disabled SM's MagickaSkillProgression, but I haven't seen any affects yet. What's really weird is that the casting cost for these spells is pretty low (it's consistent with the other spells of that level), so the mod is calculating the cost properly, but seems to be doing it after the fact, so the game has a higher spell cost and thinks it's a higher level spell. If these spells really were at a higher level, the casting cost would be much higher.

Are you running Oblivion XP or another levelling alteration mod? There seems to be a bit of an overlap with some of the things Oblivion XP does and SM, so I thought the issue might be with Oblivion XP.

Well, maybe Strategy Master or someone familiar with the mod will drop by with some comments. I'm tempted to flip the auto-calculate flag for these spells but am not certain what the impact of that would be. I really don't know what the auto-calculate flag does other than automatically calculate the spell cost and level based on the effects and magnitude of the spell.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:36 am

I am not using Oblivion XP. I do use OOO and that affects leveling as well.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:21 am

What happens when you remove all spell tweaks from the bashed patch and remove that renamer mod?

Edit: Maybe I am missing something, but it looks like that LO does not need a bashed patch, so you could try running without it to eliminate a few possibilities. Also, you can deactivate the Robert Fem plugin because it only needs to be imported. It just makes a graphical change to one of the shoes.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:13 am

I don't have any spell tweaks in my bashed patch. That didn't look like a good idea (to check off spell tweaks with SM loaded). Supreme Magicka actually recommends running the renamer mod and from what I've seen, it only adjusts the names, not the specs of the spells themselves. I'll have a closer look at it to confirm.

The only thing my bashed patch has are graphics (CM Better Wine), faces (TNR) and names (Ranokoas potions). Apparently I could merge a bunch, but I prefer to leave them as they are. My mod list is small and is running well. I do need the bashed patch for the TNR faces.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:23 am

I don't have any spell tweaks in my bashed patch. That didn't look like a good idea (to check off spell tweaks with SM loaded). Supreme Magicka actually recommends running the renamer mod and from what I've seen, it only adjusts the names, not the specs of the spells themselves. I'll have a closer look at it to confirm.

The only thing my bashed patch has are graphics (CM Better Wine), faces (TNR) and names (Ranokoas potions). Apparently I could merge a bunch, but I prefer to leave them as they are. My mod list is small and is running well. I do need the bashed patch for the TNR faces.

That's only if you want the faces to not be overwritten, haha...

Edit: This could just be one of those recalculation issues if your skill or attribute level is at an "in between" spot or something...rounding or something...I don't know. Your LO is really clean, so it might just be an internal quirk...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:18 am

If I look at Supreme Magicka in the CS, I can see that Fire Ball is set to auto-calculate and the cost is listed as 154, which would indeed make it expert level.

Then SM has made it an expert spell, plain and simple. This is probably unintended (it's right on the line), and probably a result of raising the base cost of fire damage without subsequently editing Fire Ball to tweak its cost down a few points. I would re-post this in the main SM thread, as it's basically a bug report.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am

Yeah, it's pretty weird. I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem though (misery loves company, you know)

I don't think I can wait until expert level before casting Fire Ball though, so I may try flipping the auto-calculate flag. I'll also try disabling the renaming mod, although I really hope that's not it. I like having the spells grouped and sorted by school and level. The renamer mod does everything via script and I'm just having a look at them now. What's interesting is that it uses fMagickaCost to determine the level and that's working - it correctly lists Fire Ball as D3 (journeyman). It's loaded before Supreme Magicka. I use BOSS for my load order.

I don't think this has anything to do with my character level because I can see what's going on in the CS. With the auto-calculate flag set, the CS calculates the level and cost and both put it as an expert spell (SM tweaks this spell so it has a magnitude of 40, an area of 10 and a duration of 1, so the CS calculates this as an expert level). TES4Edit shows it as Journeyman with a cost of 143. I don't know why the CS and TES4Edit show different results, presumably because TES4Edit doesn't process the auto-calculate flag.

This definitely has me stumped and there is obviously something going on that I don't understand. SM does have quite a few scripts and there may be something going on in there. I could change the magicka cost factor for SM, but I don't think that will help because the casting cost isn't that high anyway. It would also affect all spells and probably unbalance things.

Guess I'll have to play around a bit and see what I can find.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Edit: the above was in response to Tomlong. Tejon: yeah that's why I was thinking of flipping the auto-calculate flag and setting the spell cost to what TES4Edit reported. I was hesitant about posting in the SM thread because that's for all the mods. I guess I'll post something there though because that's probably what SM is monitoring.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:20 am

Latest update: I just flipped the auto-calculate flag and adjusted the spell cost for Fire Ball and Hail Storm (the two I was having problems with) and that has fixed the problem. Not sure if this is the best approach or not, but I can cast these spells now and the spell cost is in line with the other spells of the same level. I have posted this problem in the SM mods thread as well.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:45 am

I don't use the bashed patch at all.
The problem definitely becomes noticeable when nearing the next level. Like if destruction is at 48 and I have been using a spell all along, it will suddenly jump in magicka cost and be unusable not because I don't have enough magicka, but because it was relabeled a Journeyman spell. I do tend to use enchanted items that raise intelligence and magicka. Maybe when a skill is artificially boosted over the threshold and then the enchantment removed, the spells stay at the higher level.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:10 pm

Enchanted items might be the connection then. I use the Ring of Destruction periodically, which raises your destruction skill by 8. The odd thing is that my base destruction skill was 60 and with the ring 68, nowhere near a level. Also, with Oblivion XP, using skills doesn't matter anymore. Mind you, the base calculations would still apply. I have always been very careful to remove all enchantments when levelling.

It must be the mix of base stats and scripts that these mods use. Anyway flipping the auto-calculate flag in the CS or setting the manual spell cost flag in TES4Edit worked. The edit in TES4Edit is easier, if you want to give that a try.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:44 pm

Spell costs jumping by a few points is a known issue in supreme magicka with autocalc spells, I will be fixing this in future versions. As to fireball being expert either the same issue is occuring here or it may be a bug in my setting of the fireball cost originally or another mod raised spell cost of fire some more.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:16 am

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for new releases

I don't have any other mods that alter the cost of fire or frost (the other one that was acting up for me). That's the nice thing about my mod list: it's tiny

No overhaul mods either.

Thanks for the comments.