Magic development in Nirn is totally unrealistic : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:42 pm

And whoever is responsible for the "chim=CS" anology will one day see the inside of the Hague. Taboo.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:20 am

Old Void Ranger.

The world is independent of the media it's delivered on, it only exists as an idea in our minds. So any imperfections in representation should not be explained through lore as representation can change. Vivec is reaching out by referencing in his metaphor the way we have experienced the world. But his knowledge of our experience does not mean that this experience happened in Tamriel. I might see the candles but they don't exist my mind. What they represent, my condition does.

Hence the the untrue side.

I can't follow part of what you wrote, Proweler; you may have missed a word or two. Are you saying "I might see the candles but they don't exist [in] my mind" or "[outside of] my mind"?

What does it mean to say "What they represent, my condition does"?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:07 pm

Magic, not being realistic? Holy shirt, Batman! I demand that the next game's magic system be based on how magic behaves in the real world.

To address the point more seriously: "Why don't they use magic instead of siltstriders?"
Uh, you mean, why don't they have Divine and Almsivi Intervention anchors, Mark and Recall spells, an organization of teleportating Guides run by the Mages Guild, and an old Propylon Network? Yeah, I wonder why. I mean, if these things had been put in the game, it would have definitely given the impression that magic is being used for productive, utilitarian purposes such as traveling, but as it is obviously it's just a way to blast fireballs at scribs.
PS: What makes you think siltstriders aren't magic to begin with? If you think about the anatomy of such a beast, you'll find its existence much easier to justify if magic supports it rather than if it's entirely natural.

Magic is hard to use.

Ta da.

I think a cross between these works pretty well as a whole explanation.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:10 am

Old Void Ranger.

I leave the deliberate use of the magic of the void ghost eaters to others, but I did experience it by accident.

The world is independent of the media it's delivered on, it only exists as an idea in our minds. So any imperfections in representation should not be explained through lore as representation can change.

Is that an opinion ("should not")? If so, I'm fine by you having it, but to me, it quite looks like the lore does explain imperfections and is directly adressing it, see the passages I quoted above. The imperfections seem to become fewer, though - Cyrodiil seems quite stable.

Vivec is reaching out by referencing in his metaphor the way we have experienced the world. But his knowledge of our experience does not mean that this experience happened in Tamriel. I might see the candles but they don't exist in my mind. What they represent -how far I am from dying- does.

I do have a hard time interpreting this passage. Especially the part where you say that the candles don't exist in your mind. That seems to entirely contradict with your previous sentence of the world existing in our (and your) minds. Care to clarify?

Nevertheless, let's see how I best fomulate this. The average Joe Tamri-El doesn't really experience the things we talk about right now. It's for special people. Vehk's trying to talk to those people. The average Joe can live quite well in Tamriel and never really notice these imperfections, even we can "live" quite well not noticing them (suspension of disbelief). But they can be perceived by those who pay attention and they can be exploited.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

I've read an interesting article which basically said that the guilds are halting progress on purpose to maintain economic and political stability.

That was a major part of Galerion's stated purpose in creating the Mages Guild.

Some organisations seek to offer services to society that maintain the environment in which everyone operates and others are carelss of the needs of those around them except as something to manipulate for their own profit. Difference between Government and exploitation; Tradesman and Thief or Merchant and Brigand. Those who want to create do so if they have an environment that provides or allows them to.

In a time when there is strong Government an organisation has to be considerate of the needs of the rest of society if it is to live long and prosper - even the Assassins learned that.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:03 am

Gameplay is lore down in every single of its aspects. For example, it is lore that the remove paralysis spell is useless because you can't cast it while paralyzed, so it was made just to be a waste of time and magicka. It is certainly not an oversight. Likewise, it is lore that people can put on a set of armor instantly, or disrobe instantly, or read twenty books and quaff a couple of potions instantly, even when paralyzed (since they can't cast spells, they can at least do that). Finally, it is lore that in the province of Morrowind, people engage in conversation by touching the tip of an arrow blue words that appear somewhere between the two interlocutors.

It's practical reality to save time. Would you really wanna play a game where the character actually takes their clothes of realistically?
It would get boring after a while. Not to mention you're sitting there watching your character disrobe.
The game doesn't force you to use remove paralysis. It's an option. Would you really wanna have your character slowly trying to down a potion because he/she has blight? I mean, there's no perfect game. If I have to sacrifice watching my GUY character take his clothes, or pause while drinking a potion to burp, just to enjoy the game, then by all means...

Lest we forget that in the time since Morrowind's release, I could've gotten a Doctorates degree in human psychology. It's an old game. So for some of you who've just vacationed from Oblivion or Fallout3, don't expect a freakin' hand-holding, glossy, "Awesomo magic devolment drive", fake, and moronicly expensive game, unlike Morrowind.
We've come a long way since the Brown Box and ping-pong, the atari joystick systems, donkie kong and gauntlet on the nintendo systems, Zelda, Driver on the PS1, Driver2, Shinobi, San Andreas, Desert Storm, and Tekken Tag on the PS2. Halo, Halo 2, and Need for Speed on the Xbox. Oblivion, Fallout3, Bioshock on the 360. Remember the roots kiddo...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:09 am

It's practical reality to save time. Would you really wanna play a game where the character actually takes their clothes of realistically?
It would get boring after a while. Not to mention you're sitting there watching your character disrobe.
The game doesn't force you to use remove paralysis. It's an option. Would you really wanna have your character slowly trying to down a potion because he/she has blight? I mean, there's no perfect game. If I have to sacrifice watching my GUY character take his clothes, or pause while drinking a potion to burp, just to enjoy the game, then by all means...

Lest we forget that in the time since Morrowind's release, I could've gotten a Doctorates degree in human psychology. It's an old game. So for some of you who've just vacationed from Oblivion or Fallout3, don't expect a freakin' hand-holding, glossy, "Awesomo magic devolment drive", fake, and moronicly expensive game, unlike Morrowind.
We've come a long way since the Brown Box and ping-pong, the atari joystick systems, donkie kong and gauntlet on the nintendo systems, Zelda, Driver on the PS1, Driver2, Shinobi, San Andreas, Desert Storm, and Tekken Tag on the PS2. Halo, Halo 2, and Need for Speed on the Xbox. Oblivion, Fallout3, Bioshock on the 360. Remember the roots kiddo...

What the heck are you talking about, and what does it have to do with Gez's post?