Is it just me, or is it way to easy for an outlander to be named Nerevarine and Hortator? I mean, you have some good evidence and you're their last hope, but no one seems to be that bothered by you being an outlander (Except Gothren and Venim). For example, if you're a Nord, there is no disbelief or shock that the Nerevarine reincarnated as one of Morrowind's ancient enemies. And the houses seem happy to name a Nord Hortator, too.

Yes.
MK on Alandro-Sul:


In my opinion, Sul's whispers prevented the Urshilaku from gutting you where you stood.

It's also possibly a sign of how belief has decayed on Vvardenfell; the Dunmer don't make a bigger deal of it because they only half-believe that Dagoth Ur is a threat on the scale that you know he is. Several of those who have to approve you as Hortator are either mad (the Telvanni) or cynical and corrupt (the Nord who demands money from you). The Ashlanders have a more honest approach to your character but are weak and scattered tribes (however proud they may be).

Edit: It just occurred to me that the Failed Incarnates were all Dunmer, whereas your character may or may not be Dunmer but succeeds in fulfilling the prophecy and stopping Ur. Could this be a sign that your character isn't in fact Dunmer? For gameplay reasons, you can be any race or species of course.

And yet the Telvanni in Vivec won't even talk to you unless you're a member.

I don't think the Dunmer take any of it that seriously. It's just casual - Dagoth Ur isn't a threat, the Temple and our ancestors will keep him locked in Red Mountain.

The Ahemmusa are fleeing the mainland, Redoran lost a council member to an attack on her manor in the capital, sleepers are everywhere, people start stammering with awe when they see you post-MQ...

...but they don't take it seriously?

Technically, they aren't in awe of the player character until after Dagoth Ur has been stopped. When you're still getting your ticket punched to be Hortator, they're far from awed of your character.

You fulfilled the P'ophecies of the Ashlanders, and did the tasks for the House Councillors - which wasn't that easy - so you've earned their trust. Ashlanders are honorable enough to accept even outlanders when they prove themselves, and the Great Houses ultimately accept any outlander that proves capable - even Nords, Khajiit & Argonians.

There are many hints in Dunmeri prophecy that leads one to believe that the Nerevarine was destined to be an Outlander. Take the following passages for example:

"But Dragon-born and far-star-marked, Outlander Incarnate beneath Red Mountain" (http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lost_prophecy.shtml)

"A stranger's voice unites the Houses. Three Halls call him Hortator. A stranger's hand unites the Velothi. Four Tribes call him Nerevarine." (http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/sevenvisions.shtml)

"To the hearth there comes a stranger, Journeyed far 'neath moon and star." (http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/stranger.shtml)

Perhaps that it is most telling that the authorities did not seem to care much about the Nerevarine being an Outlander that leads one to believe that the person in question actually did fit the bill. If he weren't an Outlander (such as the False Incarnate in Suran), then it would be unlikely that the person would qualify. None of the failed Incarnates in Azura's Cave of the Incarnate were Outlanders, which is likely why they failed.

The authorities were merely demonstrating that they were familiar with the prophecies, not that they were being more tolerant of outsiders in allowing one to hold such a high position of faith and war.


Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

:poke: Jeez, Paws, you have such juicy bits like this, you really should start up a request in the mod forums for someone to add some of this stuff back in the game!

It was before my time in the Lore RP, but I think the ringlets of Sul were used in the Trial of Vivec part of the rp, as well as before the Trial. Thanks for bringing them back up, Paws.

http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1226517265
Just took it from here.

A shame that didn't make it into the game.



I'm saying they wouldn't do it, just that it should be a bit harder. The Alandro-Sul quote explains a bit about why the Urshilaku didn't attack an outlander for mocking their believes, and it seems logical for the other tribes to be more open to you after you have claimed the Moon-And-Star and already have the support of one clan, but they still seem a bit too eager. But I guess your evidence combined with the Moon-And-Star combined with Hlaalu and Telvanni's utter lack of interest in what you're claiming to be helps to convince the great houses. And it would've been a pretty bad story if you could never complete it due to the Dunmer's xenophobia .

I did find it a little bit odd, but you are the Re-incarnate, you have his soul since that's why the ring etc. can be worn by you. I think the fact your an out lander shouldn't matter by then because you ARE Nerevarine no matter how you look at it.

I did always feel strange about being a Nord, I feel obligated to play as a Dark elf since the story makes MUCH more sense if he re-incarnates as a Dark Elf especially a couple of house quests.

In Oblivion, it's much easier to play as any race because your no body, no re-incarnate etc.

I know what you mean. I still think it's strange to play as a Nord, as I really can't imagine Redoran naming a Nord Hortator. But then, almost all races have something distinctly hated about them, the Imperials are the oppressors, the Altmer are soft, arrogant and weak, the Argonians and Khajiit are animals, etc.

Nerevar was apparently the King of Resdayn or something which was made up of the Chimer and Nords or something if I recall, so he had a connection to them which in that view sort of could be an explanation reincarnating as a Nord.

But Morrowind expects you to be a Dark Elf no matter how you look at it, Nerevarine Incarnates only make sense as Dark elves (The False incarnate was a Dark Elf too).



Issues of not being a Dark Elf

- A Hlaalu quest requires you to wear a helm to fool a Redoran member (Your Voice apparently sounds the same as the guy you're imitating who was apparently a Dark Elf)
- If your a Dark Elf, you can get an invitation to join Dagoth Ur at Red Mountain from Dreamers at one point (I don't think you really join house Dagoth though)

There were a few other instances I noticed only Made sense as a Dark Elf, I'll list them when I remember.

Nope, Resdayn was a Chimer and Dwemer alliance, mostly against the Nord invaders. The Nords and the Dunmer, especially Redoran, have been enemies for hundreds of years.

My Redguard and Argonian characters also had the invitation from Dagoth Ur; it's not dependent on race.

I would just like to ask, IF nobody seemed to take the threat of Dagoth Ur and the prophecies seriously, then wouldn't that make people even less likely to allow a hortator, let alone an outlander one? As far as I could tell, that was a pretty desperate move, and just casually allowing some ex-con outlander to become your overlord might not exactly make sense.

I don't think the player character is an overlord in "Morrowind", though. You're more like the muscle for others -- the one who does the dirty work that they're unwilling to do. The player character doesn't raise an army when he or she goes up Red Mountain for the final battle with Ur; they're alone.

The interesting thing is, that the Failed Incarnates apparently didn't know the Prophecies that stated the Nerevarine was an 'outlander'. Peakstar and the others were all native Dunmer, so they should have realized they were all False Incarnates.

Anyway, an Argonian/Nord/Khajiit Nerevarine is preferable for me as it really puts all those arrogant, xenophobic Dunmer that probably called you 'outlander' a million times throughout the game, firmly in their place.


They had nothing to lose by sending somebody alone into Red Mountain, had they?

I always assumed that we didn't really have any political power/armies etc as the player because of game mechanics; it was an RPG not a strategy game, etc. Hortator, unless I am mistaken, is the military commander of the (very disparate and non-united) Houses. Not only is there no assurance that the Nerevarine, as Hortator, WON'T gain an army, but also they SHOULD gain an army; it makes sense for the military commander of the Houses to gain forces of the Houses. As such, why would the Houses need to name the player Hortator in order to send him alone into the mountain (aside from prohpecy, I suppose. Though if prophecy is the only reason, and if they don't really believe the problem is that bad, then why make someone Hortator just to send them into a mountain alone?)

Yeah, I've been thinking about playing a Nord for that very reason. Redoran might difficult to convince, but I still love the idea.

I've been reading the Wheel of Time series recently; as one character sees it, prophecies are merely a set of conditions that need to be met in order to create the opportune circumstances for an event, but does not mean it HAS to be that way. History turns to legend turns to myth turns to... nothingness. So perhaps they believed that even though they did not meet the exact circumstances of the prophecy, they might still make it... at least until they died.

Yeah, that would have been a real final way to destroy their dreams...