What exactly is level scaling?

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:21 am

Fallout 3's style of level scaling was handled a lot better than oblvion's was. There will still be those places that are out of a players reach until they're a higher level, but there will be other places that scale up with the player to make things still a little hard at higher levels.


This is for the best. I disliked how little challenge Morrowind gave in the end (though absolutely owning people was fun), but I absolutely hated how Oblivion made everything "challenging" (sometimes you were a bit over or underleveled and equipped) and started to have nothing but the best gear around. Many here are mentioning bandits but IMO the worst were the goblins. I simply ran out of weapons when I went into a lair full of shamans and warlords so the fighting got unbelievably tedious and in the end I turned away as soon as I saw goblins walking in front of some cave. There was no motivation to explore either when I already had the best kinds of items around

I'd like if around 80% of things were hand-placed and some 20% scaled (but not strictly 1:1 relative to me)
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Greg Swan
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:50 am

why does that piss people off? seems pretty fair to me.

all the realism went away...allies did not scale with you it made some quests harder or easier or smore weird
just looks stupid if bandits have daedric armour

the whole roleplaying element melted away :(
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:16 am

I understand this literally, but I still don't understand the reasoning of it. We live in an open world now, and there are places I wouldn't walk in my own city (for being not ready for the kind of fight I'd find there). IMO the same should exist in the game; My understanding of "Open World" was that nothing prohibits you from venturing to a place ~not that you are guaranteed to make the trip unharmed, or even survive your first encounter there.


The real world I live in doesn't make me follow a specific path. There are very few places I would be afraid to explore out in the wilds. I might get owned if I walked into a bear den but I don't have to avoid most areas and only go in one direction deemed safe for my level. It really is ok to leave the roadways and sidewalks to explore a bit.

That was about the only thing that I was bothered by in FO:NV, it seemed much to linear and I was forced down the roads the devs wanted me to go. Thankfully the world opened up a bit later but I'm not fond of feeling herded in one set direction and especially in TES games. I like to explore with little in the way of barriers to stop me. Like in my real life. ;)
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A Lo RIkIton'ton
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:47 am

A better system would be where, say, a frost troll at the bottom of a mountain is weaker than one at the top. Maybe as you get further from civilization you encounter better giants, because all but the small, unobtrusive ones had to flee from cities, or more talented forest rangers, because they've been alone longer.
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Ruben Bernal
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:13 am

The only problem for me was that (in Fallout, where there was less level scaling) at high levels there was nobody who could stand up to me, and the game became boring. I'd rather have a challenging opponent than the same raider with a butterknife charging at me while I have full Tesla armor and plasma rifles.


The problem with Fallout 3 in general was it's a really, REALLY easy game. Even the "Very Hard" setting is a complete breeze.

In fallout 2 you can reach level 20, be walking around in your combat armor and have 4 of your best buddies following you to do your bidding. You may think you are hot [censored] as you go around pummeling raiders and street scum, but when you have the extreme misfortune of running into an Enclave patrol clad in Advanced Power Armor carrying plasma rifles and pulse guns, they will turn you and your pansy ass into pudding in a matter of seconds. There always needs to be really dangerous enemies to challenge even the highest level characters. The fact of the matter is in fallout 3 there was only a couple of genuinely challenging enemies, and most of them were simply bullet sponges, which isn't great either. Fallout 3 had a decent level scaling system but in fallout 3 the main issues lies with the fact that most of your enemies are simply not very dangerous. You can walk right out of the vault with nothing but a 10mm pistol, and you can kill an entire group of armed raiders, the game is a wasteland picnic simulator not the "post apocalyptic role-playing game" it should have been.

The best way to achieve a good level scaling system is with clever and well proportioned world design, you need some clearly defined "dangerous" areas, and people need to warn you that these areas are dangerous, and are only for "experienced adventurers." They need to make the "bunny slope" sections of skyrim that have petty treasures, and then they need the "black diamond" areas in which you have terrifying monsters roaming around guarding priceless l00t.
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Alex Blacke
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:42 pm

The real world I live in doesn't make me follow a specific path. There are very few places I would be afraid to explore out in the wilds. I might get owned if I walked into a bear den but I don't have to avoid most areas and only go in one direction deemed safe for my level. It really is ok to leave the roadways and sidewalks to explore a bit.

That was about the only thing that I was bothered by in FO:NV, it seemed much to linear and I was forced down the roads the devs wanted me to go. Thankfully the world opened up a bit later but I'm not fond of feeling herded in one set direction and especially in TES games. I like to explore with little in the way of barriers to stop me. Like in my real life. ;)
That's what I liked about Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout New Vegas; That's one thing that I really liked about the series itself. Its something that I just can't ignore or except as a positive aspect of TES ~though I can accept that its an intentional aspect, and so a correct one for their series.

I will be waiting a few months to a year anyway before buying Skyrim, so I will look for mods to correct this. If they appear, I will be more inclined to buy the game. For me... purchase depends on the toolset; I'm already not interested in the gameplay & plot. :shrug:
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:22 pm

That's what I liked about Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout New Vegas; That's one thing that I really liked about the series itself. Its something that I just can't ignore or except as a positive aspect of TES ~though I can accept that its an intentional aspect, and so a correct one for their series.

I will be waiting a few months to a year anyway before buying Skyrim, so I will look for mods to correct this. If they appear, I will be more inclined to buy the game. For me... purchase depends on the toolset; I'm already not interested in the gameplay & plot. :shrug:

I can almost guarantee those mods will be out within a week.

Edit: NOT INTERESTED IN THE GAMEPLAY & PLOT!? LEMME AT 'IM, I'LL TEAR HIM APART!
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Alex Blacke
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:03 am

The real world I live in doesn't make me follow a specific path. There are very few places I would be afraid to explore out in the wilds. I might get owned if I walked into a bear den but I don't have to avoid most areas and only go in one direction deemed safe for my level. It really is ok to leave the roadways and sidewalks to explore a bit.

That was about the only thing that I was bothered by in FO:NV, it seemed much to linear and I was forced down the roads the devs wanted me to go. Thankfully the world opened up a bit later but I'm not fond of feeling herded in one set direction and especially in TES games. I like to explore with little in the way of barriers to stop me. Like in my real life. ;)


Really, though, I think that's what they're getting at with having non-leveled areas. As you level you gain access to more areas to explore at your leisure. It gives you incentive and rewards for leveling up. Oblivion had neither.
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:54 am

I say have the level grouped areas that have ranges 1-7; 5-12; 10-17; etc, keep the outside mostly leveled (to allow for exploration), have hand placed epic items and have them guarded by bosses, have loot leveled to certain ranges but never exceeding the creatures who is carrying the loots value, have main quest bosses have a minimum level but stay at least five levels above you, areas that are leveled should still have a chance to spawn low level enemies just at lower odds as you level up, and don't level legendary items. If you find something that you don't like then try to better it, if you say scrap everything to make the game easy then have you never heard of the difficulty slider? Seriously, in the option, there is a little slider that either makes the game easier or harder. It has been there for the last two games and I don't think it is going away. If fighting a level 20 boss at level 1 is too difficult for you cause you want to do everything now then lower the bar to its lowest setting, think of a strategy for a minute, and kill it. It can make a naturally 2 minute battle last 20 or >15 seconds.
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ruCkii
 
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