The moon is disappearing when we expect the stars : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:22 am

Hello everyone,

Today I bring you something to talk about, that IMO, we haven't discussed enough.

I came across this awesome blog in Gamespot where the blogger talks about how hype ruins gaming experience, giving examples.

http://www.gamespot.com/users/GabuEx/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25871937, by GabuEx.

This isn't an isolated incident, either. Rather, this is symptomatic of what I believe to be a problem that pervades almost all of gamer-dom. Namely, we form expectations. For everything. Often, this is almost completely subconscious - we hear about the idea behind a game, and we instinctively picture what we personally would consider the perfect implementation of such an idea, perhaps without even realizing we did this. Sometimes this can be completely explicit, too: when a game is announced, people will often rush to their favorite forum and post a thread in which they talk all about what they want the game to be like. Others then chime in with what they want the game to be like. Usually, these users' different desires will end up being mutually exclusive. And that's a problem, given that they're all centered around one single game that can't fulfill all of these desires at the same time.

Truly, if we play games for what they are without comparing it too much with our expectations or with previous titles we would find them far more enjoyable. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be making suggestions or talk about how WE would like the game to be. We just need not freak out when it doesn't meet our expectations. Read the whole blog for more insight.

Discuss, just keep it friendly and TES related.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:31 am

I think it's human nature to expect too much out of things. I disagree with the blog writer for saying it is simply a "gamer" thing, because it's not.

Though I think that expectations and hype are getting more common because there are more sequels than standalone titles these days.

But to be honest, my expectations for ESV were made when I finished playing Oblivion and Fallout 3. But maybe it's not a good idea to endlessly wait and speculate on the game.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:17 am

I agree completely with both of you, when you expect a game to be anything than what you're sure of, you're bound to be disappointed.

Perhaps that's why people who are fans of previous games often don't like the next game. They might expect too much of the next one, get psyched for that, and when it isn't exactly how they expected it to be, or is missing key features that they really really wanted to be implemented, they decide they really don't like it.

But like SteveJ mentioned, it isn't just a Gamer thing.

"What is destructive is impatience, haste, expecting too much too fast.
- May Sarton"

"Expect nothing and life will be velvet.
- Lisa Gardiner"

"What had seemed easy in imagination was rather hard in reality.
- L. M. Montgomery"

"Who ever is adequate? We all create situations which others can't live up to, then break our hearts at them because they don't.
- Elizabeth Bowen"

It's a human thing.

I've known about this for years, and after a couple big disappointments I realized the things I was expecting were sometimes pretty fanciful and that I had to reserve my expectations to a minimum. It's impossible to not expect something out of a new game, but it's quite possible to expect realistic things, and only guess based on what is a valid expectation.

:)

For example, Fallout 3 was developed with a re-vamped Oblivion Engine, and the next game that they're working on is an improvement of the Fallout 3 engine with tons of changes. So expecting a bunch of the features from Fallout 3 and Oblivion isn't out of the question, but speculating on those new features might leave people heartbroken.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:25 am

It happens all the time with other things as well.

Whaos, you need to go to this restaurant - they have incredible tiramisu! (get there...and let down)
A couple finally meets after exchanging correspondences for a period of time...and let down
Go to a movie after a friend and media tells you it's incredible because of x and y....let down.

Me? I avoid most situations like that just so I can form my own opinions and not get "spoiled" by hype or disparagement.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:19 pm

There is nothing wrong with a a little optimism in your life. Just a matter of knowing how to deal with it when something doesn't turn out to match your optimism. (which comes in varying degrees)

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:41 pm

There is nothing wrong with a a little optimism in your life.

Yes, but I'd say that optimism is a different thing altogether than unreasonable expectations. The hate we saw directed toward Morrowind and Oblivion was the result of unreasonable expectations, not optimism.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:56 pm

I'm not hoping for anything crazy, the biggest thing I want to see is vastly improved graphics. IMO the graphics in Fallout 3 were way behind their time, even though it was apparently a revamped version of the Oblivion engine. I really hope the graphics in ESV are a big step up from that.

So I'm not exactly shooting for the stars with that, I know it'll be a great game no matter what. But I agree with the OP's post, sometimes we go wild with what we want, and somehow those wishes all of a sudden seem feasible in our mind, then when they're not included we bash the game.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:48 am

It is true that expecting too much from a game (And this is not just true in games, but in all things as well.) can end up leading to dissappointment, not that I'm saying that you should put your expectations so low that you'll be impressed with anything, of course. There's a difference between players being dissappointed in good games because they had unrealistic explanations and games that weren't good to begin with. It's okay to have expectations for a game, after all, if you didn't expect it to be good, you wouldn't play it in the first place, it's just that if your expectations are unreasonably high, you're probably going to be dissappointed.

On the other hand, it can be very easy to let one's expectations get out of control, and in the case of the Elder Scrolls V that may or may not be in development, I'm sure the fact that Bethesda hasn't announced anything at all hasn't helped matters. SInce we have absolutely nothing concrete to go on, our imaginations are left to run wild, and the things we imagine may end up being pretty different from reality, because of this, when the Elder Scrolls V is actually announced, I can see many fans being dissappointed not because what Bethesda shows us is not good, but because it's very different from what people let themselves expect, of course, when Bethesda does announce it, if they're not careful with what they say, they might end up making the game become overhyped and leave people dissappointed because of that, but that's another matter.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:59 pm

I generally don't follow games too closely until they're near release. This is certainly harder for games covered on these forums but even for these I'm generally not pouncing on all of the interviews and videos. The reason is simple: I don't want to set my expectations beyond what the game can achieve.

Back when Black and White was in developement I remember a preview in CGW where several developers had little blurbs about the astonishing feats of the game's AI. Peter Molyneux himself said they were giving serious consideration to putting the AI through the Turing test. What was the end result? Something not much more advanced than a tamagotchi. Several of my friends got the game an all of them were severely disappointed with the AI. Of course Molyneux's over-hyping has becoming notorious since then.

I like that Bethesda releases little or no information until they're fairly close to release so most of what we hear is fairly solid. This doesn't eliminate changes but it keeps them to a minimum. It seems that more studios are drifting in this direction.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:55 am

I'd like to toss something in. If gamers didn't have these ridiculous expectations would games be what they are today? Would they still be excelling in technology and creativity the way they are?

Just something I always consider when thinking about this.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:18 pm

I generally don't follow games too closely until they're near release. This is certainly harder for games covered on these forums but even for these I'm generally not pouncing on all of the interviews and videos. The reason is simple: I don't want to set my expectations beyond what the game can achieve.

Back when Black and White was in developement I remember a preview in CGW where several developers had little blurbs about the astonishing feats of the game's AI. Peter Molyneux himself said they were giving serious consideration to putting the AI through the Turing test. What was the end result? Something not much more advanced than a tamagotchi. Several of my friends got the game an all of them were severely disappointed with the AI. Of course Molyneux's over-hyping has becoming notorious since then.

I like that Bethesda releases little or no information until they're fairly close to release so most of what we hear is fairly solid. This doesn't eliminate changes but it keeps them to a minimum. It seems that more studios are drifting in this direction.

Oblivion did a similar thing though, hyping about the new Radiant AI, but then they delivered. I felt a little like this with Halo Reach, my bro is a extremely devoted fan of Halo, and he would always be blurting out how amazing the game is going to be based on interviews and information he found on Bungies site. When the game came out, I felt like we expected something amazing, and it couldn't deliver to what me and my brother felt it was going to be.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:33 am

Yes, it is a human thing indeed. However, nothing gets so much hype from people more than games, along with movies perhaps. I admit that I was one of those disappointed at Oblivion and after giving it some thought, I wondered if I had played Oblivion first, without watching all these interviews and screenies, I probably wouldn't have complained about a thing.

There's a difference between players being dissappointed in good games because they had unrealistic explanations and games that weren't good to begin with. It's okay to have expectations for a game, after all, if you didn't expect it to be good, you wouldn't play it in the first place, it's just that if your expectations are unreasonably high, you're probably going to be dissappointed.

Well summed.

I generally don't follow games too closely until they're near release. This is certainly harder for games covered on these forums but even for these I'm generally not pouncing on all of the interviews and videos. The reason is simple: I don't want to set my expectations beyond what the game can achieve.

Back when Black and White was in developement I remember a preview in CGW where several developers had little blurbs about the astonishing feats of the game's AI. Peter Molyneux himself said they were giving serious consideration to putting the AI through the Turing test. What was the end result? Something not much more advanced than a tamagotchi. Several of my friends got the game an all of them were severely disappointed with the AI. Of course Molyneux's over-hyping has becoming notorious since then.

If there's anything I learned from Peter Molyneux and his enthusiastic hype in interviews is that I shouldn't believe all that is said.

From him and everyone else.

I like that Bethesda releases little or no information until they're fairly close to release so most of what we hear is fairly solid. This doesn't eliminate changes but it keeps them to a minimum. It seems that more studios are drifting in this direction.

Agreed, they do need to keep changes to a minimum after announcement.

I'd like to toss something in. If gamers didn't have these ridiculous expectations would games be what they are today? Would they still be excelling in technology and creativity the way they are?

Just something I always consider when thinking about this.

It's the developer's mind and own creativity that makes and designs the game, not the fans. Sure, developers listen to fans and their suggestions/requests and that's a good thing. BUT, people need to understand that not all their suggestions will be taken into consideration.

If the developers announce that there will be flying mounts in the game, don't bet too much on it, so you are not disappointed if they cancel them or if they aren't as cool as you thought they would be.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:24 am

I got no unreasonable expectation. I just hope the next TES game will always be AT LEAST as good as the last one. (main games ofc) The logic is, that with each game they keep the good things, fix some broken things, and THEN come up with some new ideas. Plus the ever evolving hardware, and uptodate graphics, physics, and sounds.

Seems too much to ask sometimes.