Speaking of realism mods..

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:15 am

I've noticed people who like realism mods, tend to play on higher difficulty or use OOO to make things harder and more realistic; however, it isn't really realistic that it takes 20-30 hits with a sword or 10-12 shots from a bow to kill something, even if they do have good armor. I haven't seen (doesn't mean there isn't one) a mod that makes it where it takes 1-6 hits to kill something and you can only take about that also.. Why is this?
User avatar
Antonio Gigliotta
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:39 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 am

Because you haven't looked in the right places.

Duke Patrick's Combat Archery makes bows absolutely deadly in the right hands.

There's a mod that makes every hit do 200% more damage.

Deadly Reflex contains many options to make combat faster.

And there are plenty of others.
User avatar
maria Dwyer
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:24 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:06 am

But I mean, in all the mod lists i've seen, and all the people I hear talk about Immersion, and reality, I never hear them mention those. They want to have to attack something for 3min and if they get hit 4 times there dead?
User avatar
Darren
 
Posts: 3354
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:33 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:11 am

I've sorta noticed that too. What they want is to feel like a weakling in a big bad world of monsters where everything has been around a hundred years more than you and so should pwn you by just looking in your direction. Its sorta...selective realism. But realism on that level is hard in a fantasy game, unless you'd only make it affect 'human' NPCs (Excluding probably Khajiit, Argonians, Nords, Orcs, Vampires, and NPC races), because whos to say how many hits a giant minotaur will take to bring down? But still, I see your point.
User avatar
Eilidh Brian
 
Posts: 3504
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:45 am

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:02 pm

I think you may also be confusing two different concepts. Very few people who play a fantasy role-playing game want "realism" mods. Many of those people want "immersion" mods. They want mods that will help them get more involved in the world, more involved in their character. But not mods that make the game less fun.

So, what you'll find is that mods that make being in the world more real tend to be popular. Eating, sleeping, various means of healing, crafting items, having to think about what you are doing and plan your trips. Those are all immersion mod.

When it comes to fighting, though, it's all about the persons play style. A stealthy assassin may like the idea of sneaking up on someone unseen and slitting their throat, but an Orc Barbarian type player wants to be able to wade into a fight and cause havoc amongst the enemies, taking as much damage as they deal and loving every moment of the fight.

Deadly Reflex is a nice middle ground....decently long fights, with satisfying finishing moves.
User avatar
Floor Punch
 
Posts: 3568
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 7:18 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:02 pm

Indeed, but I still say that some people end up getting it confused. 'I want realism'! They cry, but in the end what they want is really immersion.
User avatar
carrie roche
 
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:18 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:15 pm

But I mean, in all the mod lists i've seen, and all the people I hear talk about Immersion, and reality, I never hear them mention those. They want to have to attack something for 3min and if they get hit 4 times there dead?

Agree with Showler - immersion is about roleplay and realism is about game tweaks to (usually) make the game harder.

Often confused terms.

Duke Patrick is my favorite. Phitts Damage mod looks good if you don't want anything but damage amount changed.

Search combat mods instead of immersion. or combat realism.
User avatar
Charity Hughes
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:22 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:24 am

definitely try Duke Patrick's combat mods. unfortunately, his old sca combat mod isnt available on nexus anymore. but with duke's mods, even vanilla game can be tougher. honestly i dont go fcom for the difficulty as much as variety. with combat archery for example, you really have to fear those archers now and make sure one isnt behind you with a clear shot at your back. :)
User avatar
Brentleah Jeffs
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:21 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:13 am

I second the suggestion that you try Phitt's http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1089733-relz-damage-multiplier/. Also http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094101-relz-deadlier-creatures/, and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1093368-relz-less-knockback/ (which I just discovered while searching the other two).
User avatar
Alada Vaginah
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:31 pm

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:26 pm

Someone on the forums has this in their sig: Fantasy + Reality = Believable. Does believability = immersion?

Hmmmm.....interesting question.
User avatar
Travis
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:57 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:27 am

I've noticed people who like realism mods, tend to play on higher difficulty or use OOO to make things harder and more realistic; however, it isn't really realistic that it takes 20-30 hits with a sword or 10-12 shots from a bow to kill something, even if they do have good armor. I haven't seen (doesn't mean there isn't one) a mod that makes it where it takes 1-6 hits to kill something and you can only take about that also.. Why is this?

I like the game pretty hardcoe, and to avoid the too long combats when increasing the difficulty, I just made a simple mod that keeps the player health from getting too high on higher levels, so such mods do exist: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26409
User avatar
Auguste Bartholdi
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:20 am

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:59 pm

I've noticed people who like realism mods, tend to play on higher difficulty or use OOO to make things harder and more realistic; however, it isn't really realistic that it takes 20-30 hits with a sword or 10-12 shots from a bow to kill something, even if they do have good armor. I haven't seen (doesn't mean there isn't one) a mod that makes it where it takes 1-6 hits to kill something and you can only take about that also.. Why is this?

I like the game pretty hardcoe, and to avoid the too long combats when increasing the difficulty, I just made a simple mod that keeps the player health from getting too high on higher levels, so such mods do exist: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26409
User avatar
Janeth Valenzuela Castelo
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:03 am

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:47 pm

If I had the power to ban words I would ban the word "realism" from all discussions of fantasy games. I would substitute the word "plausible" for the word "realism".
User avatar
Emma Copeland
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:37 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:34 pm

So, what you'll find is that mods that make being in the world more real tend to be popular. Eating, sleeping, various means of healing, crafting items, having to think about what you are doing and plan your trips. Those are all immersion mod.
Really? I'd call those 'realism'- for the most part they don't better connect you to the world or involve you in it, they just add into the gameworld 'mechanics' from the real world.
User avatar
Calum Campbell
 
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:55 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:23 am

I call them immersion because they make you think like you're in that world. Not like you're just viewing it.
User avatar
RaeAnne
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:40 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:39 am

They don't really, though- you don't suddenly feel more invested in the gameworld because you have to eat a loaf of bread every eight hours or suffer a penalty. Making NPC interaction richer, making the environment more responsive, making the world react better to your actions is immersion because they increase the feel that you're within the world and your actions have consequences and meaning. Hunger/thirst/sleep mods are just having to go into inventory and use an item which I'd argue is counterimmersive- it explicitly says "Look, here is a new mechanic", you have to access it through the 'game' screens rather than by interacting with the world...
User avatar
Steven Nicholson
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:24 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:45 am

If I had the power to ban words I would ban the word "realism" from all discussions of fantasy games. I would substitute the word "plausible" for the word "realism".


Yeah, the realism moniker is fantasy games always gives me a chuckle, even though I do look for and use it myself in this, MW and other such games :D

On topic... I used to hate that too, I found slashing away for ages tedious. Then I found Kuratee's strength and skill based damage mod, sorry can't remember the exact author/name, I'll post back when if I can locate it.

Changes damage on all weapons. Against a same level opponent it usually takes less than 10 hits, often much less. Most low level goblins will be killed with a single blow with an axe or longsword even when you're just starting out (in my game anyway, I use a 12 month old FCOM install).

Of course it works the other way and I've been one hit killed with some of my weaker melee types - fear the Nord with an iron warhammer :P

I've not got any high level characters however so cannot comment on how it performs at those levels.


Good luck.

:)
-kwm
User avatar
Connor Wing
 
Posts: 3465
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:22 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:25 am

It is disingenuous to insist upon getting stuck on others' use of terms such as "realism" in this kind of context. It is widely known exactly what is meant by it, so splitting hairs and posturing is, well, just that.

As for combat mods, I happen to like realism mods. A lot. :) And yes, I use FCOM... among other things. And I can assure you, combat is NOT slow and ponderous, let alone safe or predictable. And that, dear readers, is realistic.
User avatar
kevin ball
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:02 pm

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:23 pm

you don't suddenly feel more invested in the gameworld because you have to eat a loaf of bread every eight hours or suffer a penalty.

Now, there are needs mods which lovingly model biologically-accurate penalties, require that you stay hydrated and take in balanced nutrition, etc. Going to that level of detail serves no real gameplay function, although quite a few people are into simulation for its own sake. But just because they use the same terminology ("eat," "sleep") doesn't mean that all mods implementing these mechanics do so for the same reasons.

A sense of immediacy and urgency, a sense that time matters, is painfully lacking from Oblivion despite the fact that time is clearly passing, with a visible day/night schedule and shops that aren't open 24/7. Hunger makes downtime a valuable commodity. Sleep does the same for uptime. And without both, you can just sit in one place for three days waiting for a cave/merchant/bunch-of-herbs to respawn, without expending any resources whatsoever. Needs mechanics sharply discourage a simple, obvious, nigh-irresistible exploit which breaks immersion, and removes the likewise immersion-breaking disconnect between time visibly passing but not tangibly passing. It can be said that their presence doesn't add anything... but their absence hurts. There are other ways to address these issues, but hunger and fatigue are familiar and easily accepted, which makes them good candidates to fill the gap.

And if your other mods have created a more dangerous and less money-filled world, the characterization of "I have to click the bread icon every eight hours" is completely false, especially at low levels. It's more like, "Holy crap where am I going to get some bread, and can I find a safe place to sleep or am I going to be eaten by a wolf?" ...crossing the line from chore to obstacle, which changes it from tedious to rewarding. ;)
User avatar
Michael Russ
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:33 am

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:02 pm

Realism mods add what you can already see in the game. The people of Oblivion sleep and eat, there is a lot of alcohols too... Some guys need money too for stay in live. That's exactly the same way with a lot of mods. You can save the world, yeah but you're not a divine avenger who can fight a thousand of daedra without eat/sleep/drink.
When I play (rarely... I need time for...) I love to prepare my travel. Go trough an oblivion door with just an armor, weapon, few potion and repair hammer? No way ! I need something for sleep, eat, drink and have to see for my encumbrance. If I take too much time dying is a much greater possibility: No holidays in Oblivion, quick close the door for sell the things I've take and take a good rest with a good meal. It's make the game a little less "close the door... Close the door again... Close the door again again... Find some allies, close their doors... Close the door... Close the door again... Close... Oh no save the emperor ! But how? ... Hmmm ... Close the door?"

And in the "Black Brotherhood" they always say something like "Take a nap before your next mission..." An we can't respond to them "Shu* *p Vicente ! I'm an Half-God I can become Announcer without sleep an hour." And when he say "Sleep in the sanctuary and I'll..." We think: "... I... Don't... Need... To... SLEEP !!!!!"... A try for make one of the mission easier for the "goods guys"? I don't think so...

PS: It seem I'm crazy... Sorry :bolt:

EDIT: For the combats its quite different. I love when it's something like "First touch is an advantage." or "don't hit like a blind, think before."... I really love when it's... Hmmm... Realistic. In oblivion you can wait with your shield, make a power attack and kill... A fire ball is like a beach volley ball and the frost spell let feel like a childish game (... "Bataille de boules de neige" in French... Literally "Snow's balls battle".)
The game and his gameplay didn't bring challenge. Sneak make the character more slower but not really more deadly (a powerful attack and it's ok). Bow are quite useful even in close range and there is no real difference between dagger/short sword/ long sword (the fight is the same). So it's quite fun to see every weapon have REALLY a difference and make the choice of it much harder... Maybe take a bow AND a mace? A dagger can be useful? Sneak behind an archer is vital and a priority, the swordman will not be really a problem if I take him in second... Not just: "AHHHHHHHHRGH !!!!! *slash, splash* HYAAAAAAAA *bash, bash, splash*"
User avatar
Juanita Hernandez
 
Posts: 3269
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:36 am


Return to IV - Oblivion