I thought not... Well don't mind me...

:D

Like there was when the Fabricants attacked Mournhold or when it was engulfed in an unnatural and unceasing ashstorm and Almalexia didn't do anything to help? :rolleyes: The people there the ones who were actually there when it happened.


No. It's just become another battlefield for this debate.

So you can't do anything but grasp for reasons for why Morrowind was bad too? That's a particularly craven approach to a very simple issue. It's not a matter of relativity.


And are you really comparing hell coming to destroy the world, massacring thousands and toppling Empires to a 30 second skirmish between guards and robots?

Edit: Wait, you also seem to have completely forgotten the details of Tribunal's plot. The attack and the ashstorms were all orchestrated by Almalexia, to scapegoat Sotha Sil and demonstrate her power, respectively. Of course she didn't help.

Sure it is, Oblivion is being judged relative to Morrowind and the PGE 1E.


Those at Mournhold actually were there when the Fabricants attacked, even if they were put down relatively quickly. Not to mention they were there when an ashstorm appeared over the city. On the other hand, the Daedra only destroyed a few cities, and only those who saw it would be traumatized. Elsewhere, people would either be shaken and fearful, but until the threat fully presents itself to them, they weren't sure that something so bizarre could happen to them too.

Might as well add Daggerfall, the god father of the setting, to that list and we're comparing against the whole series. Which is not an unreasonable thing to do.

And really, you can't compare a few fabricants and some bad weather to an invading horde of monstrous immortal creatures from portals all over Cyrodiil, who almost effortlessly waste a fortified city in the heart of the Empire. This isn't any normal enemy, these are the forces of Destruction.

And yet they were so concerned they they put aside mutual suspicion, antagonism, and vested interests to embrace unity and altruism, supporting a monk who came out of nowhere. You've come full circle now, so which is it- business as usual or frightened into reason?


And Oblivion is being judged as a failure relative to a success. I don't care how they do it (and certainly don't want Morrowind's environment set somewhere else), as long as it is effective and compelling. Cyrodiil was absent. It wasn't worse than Morrowind in terms of atmosphere and background so much as it didn't bother to present one.

Not frightened enough to break down into mass panic, but frightened into working together.


A success in what exactly? I doubt that it could be bigger than selling a lot of copies or getting good reviews, both of which TES IV succeeded in doing.

And we obviously view Cyrodiil differently from each other.


Sure I can, even at the heart of the event there was no panic. As opposed to having not seen any of it, only hearing about it, even if the event was a lot bigger.

Yes, when invading horde of monstrous immortal creatures appears out of portals all over Cyrodiil and almost effortlessly lay waste to a fortified city in the heart of the Empire, people do not panic. At all. This isn't any normal enemy, these are the forces of Destruction.

Great setting you got going there.

Dear god, you don't understand that this is Lore Forum (ˈlȯr' f?rm,), do you?

As I said, they didn't see it, they didn't experience it, they only heard about it. And by that time the attackers were already defeated.

And really, there's no need to get uncivil.


Do you? I don't think that "Bethesda messed up" is exactly lore either.

Right. You might want to check back with your previous arguments. According to you the political world was paralysed with fear and the legions of hell were ready to wreak havoc. But now people do not panic because the treat wasn't actually so severe. Right.





"Bethesda messed up with the Lore", seems about right here.

In the courtyard of her palace was a boiling pool which steamed in the coolness of the winter morning. At the wave of her hand, it cleared and she saw the face and form of her lover Vivec in his study to the north. She did not want to speak right away: he looked so handsome in his dark red robes, writing his poetry as he did every morning.

"Vivec," she said, and he raised his head in a smile, looking at her face across thousands of miles. "I have seen a vision of the end of the war."

From 2920. Note it does not say "She looked out of her interior cell city to vivec, across six miles".

Which is why we don't discuss it as such. You do.

Neither was feudalism except in a few cases. All I am saying is that our modern system is in fact a descendant of feudalism. Our gov't is based off and is in many ways feudalistic. And here's the thing regarding your last statement, under a lot of feudal governments you did have that right. People were more free under feudalism in many cases than they were when the national monarchies moved in, the king's commands were taken as a suggestion and he couldn't do much if you decided not to listen. Feudal kings weren't much in the business of telling people where to live and all that, because if they were then their vassals would rebel (it happened)

Now that being said, my point is not that we are feudal, but that we are based off of a feudal system, and my point regarding cyrodiil is that they have a similar situation.

Regarding the OP, One of those informatiional load screens says "for his heroism at Pale Pass, Cantus Jeral was appointed the first count of Chorral" or something like that.

World of Warcraft has sold more than Oblivion. I guess I should go play that then?

Thanks for all replies.

I agree that our modern forms of goverment might be a DECENDANT of feudalism.
But today repressentants are selected/elected, maybe even for life, but their families isnt (This of does of course not include a few nations such as Swaziland)
That is an important difference and one that gives the people/Head of state much more control and power.

I never claimed that the emperor should directly control all his land, I asked why he didnt apoint governors (and not families! ) to rule his land?. Vassals mean less power, less influence and a risk of revolts what did the emperor gain from them? nothing that a governor couldnt offer??? Historically they offered soldiers, here the emperor has the Legion and doesnt need them!

Regards
/The Mage

I'd like to think of it as a result of a culmination of various events and circumstances:

You have the human peoples who identify themselves with the regions they come from. This implies a sort of independence that comes with growing up within a sectionalistic or cultural background. Their having city states and kingdoms would be a way of them maintaining their independence.

You also have what was supposed to be a huge and vast amount of geography that composed Cyrodiil, so dividing up the land would make sense for administrative and census purposes, as previously stated.

I also would just like to think of it as just a large political system; the kingdoms compose a large commonwealth that are run by various rulers according to the dynasty occupying the throne. Each move made by each city state would really be a large attempt to stab someone in the back and gain a better foothold in an ongoing power struggle. Historically (and by that I mean realistically), I'd like to relate it to the medieval kingdoms of Lithuania and Poland and their union under the Jagiellonian Dynasty. Perfect example of this.