Hello lore community. I am here to ask you a very specific set of questions concerning my favorite topics, the Morag Tong, the Dark Brotherhood, the Night Mother, and all the links in between. One reason for this is a new roleplay I am in, the Potentate Removal, and another is my mod and fanfic novel The Dark Kings/Fabula de Nihilo quod Viro. The main reason is this is something i'm still fuzzy on, and really would like to know^^ Knowledge for knowledge's sake and all that^^

1. First things first, following chronological order, ignoring the creation of the Morag Tong for now, I must know, in as great of detail of possible, the events of 31 Last Seed, 2920; the day Prince Juilek Cyrodiil (1E ?b - 1E 2920d) was assassinated by the Morag Tong. Prince Juilek, who is he? Why was he killed, and what was the significance of that event immediately, and then in many years?

2. Following that, the 2nd era begins. Akaviri Potentate Versidue-Shaie takes over, no?, and continues living until the Morag Tong assassinate him 2E 324. He declares martial law and does what he did, until the Tong saw fit to kill him to gain fame, or infamy, as the situation may be. Why did they kill him, I understand the Night Mother played an important role in it, but that is next question. Any elaboration on this event is much needed^^.

3. The Night Mother, mysterious leader of the Dark Brotherhood and apparent mastermind of the Potentate assassination, has a very rather unknown identity. She has, as far as i have seen, 3 different personas: the ghost in TESIV Oblivion, the old woman in TESIII Morrowind, and the Daedric Prince Mephala. The ghost is, I believe, an ex-thieve's guild member who was believed to live during the assassination of 324. The old woman is an un-exemplarary person who is a part of a quest in Morrowind, who gained the title, as it is a title, and didn't really play a part in the assassination, but her predecessor might have, was there always a mortal one like that, at all times, passed down? Mephala, oh goodness not a Daedric Prince in here too, supposedly posed as the Night Mother, and Sithis, for that matter, and led a group of Morag Tong assassins to kill the potentate and eventually become the Dark Brotherhood.

4. Could the ghost night mother be Mephala as well?

5. The exchanging of dieties in the Tong is rather confusing. Supposedly, they once worshipped Mephala and potentially other Dunmer gods, then during the schism, some changed to woshipping "Sithis", or Sithis as they see him, not as he is, a mass of nothing and an elemental force, and eventually became the Dark Brotherhood. Then, when the Tong were being hunted down by the other governments, they changed to worshipping Vivec so Morrowind would house them. Who did they worship at the beggining, who does the Brotherhood really worship: Sithis, Mephala, Lorkhan, the Night Mother? Why did the opposing beliefs cause so much conflict that two groups formed, and did the Night Mother get this situation going and continuing?

6. Between 2E 324 and 358, the Dark Brotherhood organized. How long did it take them to leave the Tong, the first year, or some after? Where did they go, and how? Was the Night Mother with them and how many of them were there?

7. Finally, how did the world view these two groups back then, the few people that knew them? Was there as much fear and suspicion as there is in present day, TESIV Tamriell, or was it more or less unknown? If a guard saw a man sneaking around, what would he think?

Thank you all, if you have any info on this time or these groups you think is relevant, feel free to post, even if it doesn't necesarily answer one of the above questions (categories, really). Thanks again, see you tommorow morning :snoring:

The Potentate is my RP guys.

Pretty much, The night mother is mentioned in a bunch of different books, and they all say she is a different person.

1) Emperor Reman Cyrodiil III and his son and heir Juilek Cyrodiil are both assassinated by the Morag Tong, following a breach of truce by sacking the fortress of Black Gate. Akaviri Potentate Versidue-Shaie takes over the throne, beginning the era known as the Imperial Interregnum.

2) They killed him because he was foreign and was screwing the Empire

3) I know, that confuses me too

4) Maybe, though Sithis has also been referred to as Mephala

5) Don't know, my theory is that the Brotherhood was created because of a who-to-worship conflict

6) No one really knows besides the journal record

7) I know the Tong was legal until the assassination, and has always been legal in Morrowind. After the Brotherhood was formed, they were always illegal, and many new of them in Oblivion, but they were tolerated.


If any of you guys want to join the RP, have a look at it.....We need some roles to be filled

See RP for details

1.) I Think it's fair to note that when Juilek was assassinated, he was believed to be Emperor Reman Cyrodiil III. Or at least by the less-than-competent assassin, it's possible that the Night Mother (who was seen as a mortal woman in 2920) was aware it was Juilek and not the Emperor who was going to be killed. But nobody can be certain.

Don't take everything that book says as the truth.

that's one of the most annoying things about studying lore for a project, a lot of books and other sources lie ><. thnaks all, keep information coming, I need all that I can get, of any kind relating to this time period^^

EDIT: Yes, alaisiagae, i read your thread. I simply felt it didn't go into as much detail as i require. and i didn't want to start asking questions there due to possible thread hi-jacking. i enjoyed your thread, it taught me a lot, thats why i could make such statements as above. you do offer much insight, but i really needed somethimg specific to the time period and immediately around it, not just a look back on history of a greater scale. thank you though, many people will earn due to said link^^

A refining of a bit of the above questions:
1. Did the Akavari Potentate hire the Tong to kill the prince? How did the governments of the states of Cyrodiil, Morrowind, and the tribes of Elsweyr react (being that Elsweyr wasn't a province for many more years, but it still had people like the Mane to run things)?
2. Was the potentate immortal, being he lived the 300 on years from 2920 to his death? What race was he, and where did he come from (an answer besides just Akavir, please^^)
3. 3 or 4 Night Mothers, before we start making claims?
4. Really an expansion of the third question
5. How many of their "Gods" were just Mephala in disguise?
6. Still no new info on that one
7. Same as above

Thanks again, all.

edit: thanks guys, i do enjoy books, and especially excerpts and summaries if you have them (wink wink)

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=981526&view=findpost&p=14187578.

2.) Potentate Versidue-Shaie was a Tsaesci, an akaviri race described as reptilian and snake-like. While 2920 describes them as actual snake-men, there has been no sight of a being of akavir for thousands of years since. Speculation exists that the Tsaesci are more like men, and are only serpentine in manner. No imagery or extremely reliable account exists of them, but they're generally believed to be 'vampire-snakes.' Tsaesci are really the only akaviri race to have interacted with Tamriel (aside from the newly-discovered men of akavir, read about it http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/adanorcilarticle2.shtml.)

For more information on Akavir and its races, you can hit up http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mysterious_akavir.shtml (bear in mind that this is an in-game book, and could have falsehoods) and the http://www.imperial-library.info/akavir/index.shtml.

The Tsaesci come from the southwest of Akavir. Read Disaster at Ionith for more information on Versidue-Shaie's homeland.

i have done quite a bit of research into the akaviiri, and came up with a bit of knowledge on the potentate^^

The Potentate of the Empire back in the 1st era was the result of Emporer Reman's alliance with the Akavir after the attempted invasion. Then, the combined forces united Tamriell under his rule, with an Akavarii potentate as an advisor. this potentate is traditionally a Tsaesci, and existed in peace like this for many years, until 2920. Then, when prince Reman the III and his father are assassinated, the Potentate takes over. He declares martial law, squashing rebellion after rebellion, becoming very rather disliked by the native citizens of the empire. He is more or less protected by tsaesci warriors, and is one night assassinated by the Tong. I believe i now know all I need to on him, but any more info is more than welcome^^.

edit: the source of chaos is particularily helpful, thank you^^

does no one know what happened at this time? any gaps will be filled in by rp, but always want to follow established lore first ^^

Im not sure whether you don't know about, forgot about or just chose not to mention the other Assasins guild. The Crimson Scars.



Just thought I should mention it.

Quote: i have done quite a bit of research into the akaviiri, and came up with a bit of knowledge on the potentate^^

The Potentate of the Empire back in the 1st era was the result of Emporer Reman's alliance with the Akavir after the attempted invasion. Then, the combined forces united Tamriell under his rule, with an Akavarii potentate as an advisor. this potentate is traditionally a Tsaesci, and existed in peace like this for many years, until 2920. Then, when prince Reman the III and his father are assassinated, the Potentate takes over. He declares martial law, squashing rebellion after rebellion, becoming very rather disliked by the native citizens of the empire. He is more or less protected by tsaesci warriors, and is one night assassinated by the Tong. I believe i now know all I need to on him, but any more info is more than welcome^^.

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I think you missed a bit. There was more than one potentate. The first potentate took the throne at the end of the first Era when Reman III died. The potentates ruled for 430 years and granted the first charters to the Fighters and Mages guild.
The last potenate was named Savirien-Chorak. He was assasinated in 2E 430 which resulted in the dispanding of the original Cyrodiilic empire.

yes, thank you, i knew just about all that, just forgot to put it here. Thank you for doing so, though, the rp concerning this thread is about to take off, we now have the new members of Darth Ravanger and Peleus XD

Don't take what i said offensively, btw, i had just forgot to mention.

And the crimson scars weren't formed for quite some time later, and thus are more or less irrelevant to the current threda, might include in one of the sequels, though^^ (Crimson Scars were formed 3E 421, os i chose not to include them seeing as how the topic is 2920 1E XP)