Combining Fantasy and Magic with Guns : Othor Games

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:19 am

You never played http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura

Damn it thats what I get for not reading the whole thread before typing!

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:19 am

Hmm... Magic in my world has never been something just anyone could wield. Or, rather, the more advanced spells takes a little more... well... advancement. That's how I've always wanted it to be, because I don't want to fall into the trap where everyone possesses magic and it's just a big sorcery-fest. Minor magic (such as, perhaps locking/unlocking doors, lighting lamps with non-lethal fire) takes less skill, so more people could use that sort of magic. However, magic that takes more skill (moving mountains, shooting out fireballs and rods of lightening) takes far greater skill and, during the time my story takes place, is quite unheard of.

The problem I have is that this technological revolution has already come and passed at the time of the story. Wizards and sorcerers (or magi

) no longer have the major role they have, because such destructive magic wasn't even outwardly used to begin with. My world isn't like TES or Erikson's Malazan series where destructive magic is so easily used. It's more subtle. Like I said... deceptive kind of magic more than anything, things that have practical use to everyday situations such as light source, heat source, locking/unlocking, etc.

I simply want to write the story where the technological revolution has already taken place. For the reader I don't want them to think "Okay, there's a conflict of magic vs. technology going on, I want to see what happens." It's more like I want them to think, "Okay, there is a new era and obviously magic's use was nearly wiped out during a technological revolution long ago." See what I mean? I want the era to appear that it's already happened and there is little to no conflict, rather than the process actually taking place during the story.

Thanks for all the help. Talking about writing is fun.

I think I saw your own idea right in there

why not write a story in which the world has now become almost entirely technological, but magic, in a Darwinian sense, has evolved to co-exist with it in a much more subtle way.

for instance, while the gun may be superior to the fireball, who's to say your neighbor is learning dark arts and is casting hexes on you that no gun could stop.
or maybe it's a bit more benevolent
think about it, even in todays modern society all the anti-biotics, anesthetics, MRI machines and sharp pointy needles would never hold a candle to a healing potion or flesh-mending spell.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:50 am

What power source does the technology run off of?

In a world with magic, I could see technology being run off of magic. Thus making technology dependent on magic, and making magic not useless.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:16 am

This pretty much sound Like Arcanum, Final Fantasy VI, and Magicka Obscura for me, maybe do you want to get ideas from there?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:42 am

I'm outlining a novel right now. Without going into too much rant-like detail, it's going to be about slaves (several races, I think) that are led by a non-slave as they fight for their freedom.

My question is how should I go about writing a story involving a magical world that combines weaponry such as flintlock, matchlock and wheellock rifles/pistols?

Does my story then turn into more of a steampunk story than a fantasy? I continuously find myself drifting more and more away from a high-fantasy magical world to a world with guns such as this, and trains as well. And really, with the coming of guns, trains, etc... does this technology in a way destroy the use of magic, making it somewhat unnecessary? Does it defeat the purpose and make it obsolete? I think about this all the time.

What do you all think?

Study "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura" first, then "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundarr_the_Barbarian".

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/arcanum_of_steamworks_and_magick_obscura/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhAobPugvsk

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:10 am

Magic's compatibility w/ technology hinges on the rarity or difficulty within the setting.

If there is a faction or population of people that are unable to perform magic, they will undoubtedly seek alternatives as a means to stand against, compete with and even the playing field.

In the Elder Scrolls for example, I'm fairly convinced that there is something illogical in this context. Magic is fairly common, so if you were to argue that magic discourages innovation, or makes scientific pursuit unrewarding... there are some glaring problems:

1) Why invent the wheel when there are spells like feather, telekineses or fortify speed?
2) Why build stairs when one can levitate.
3) Why build roads? Or tame horses?
4) Why produce weapons and armor? Shield spell? Bound weapons/armor?
5) Who needs bridges when you can levitate or walk on water?
6) If projectile spells are supposed to eliminate the need for guns, WHY ARE THERE BOWS AND ARROWS?
7) Is the sneak skill redundant when you can simply cast invisibility or chameleon?
8) Torches? Please, I got light spells and night-eye.

Just a few examples. When you figure out how common magical talent is your setting, you have to think about the implications for the functions spells perform and the mundane/technological that serve the same function.

I easily believe that the non-magical people look for a means to gain advantage over the magically inclined.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:25 pm

Sounds like final fantasy, I hate the two mixed. :/ = I hate FFs.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:30 pm

Batman isn't real either. It's still more enjoyable to see the Dark Knight bleed, try his best and still suffer, than him going through millions of wads of minions and punching them without any effort.

What do you mean Batman isn't real!?!? :cryvaultboy:

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:28 pm

This pretty much sound Like Arcanum, Final Fantasy VI, and Magicka Obscura for me, maybe do you want to get ideas from there?

I agree. It sounds so much like Arcanum that we need to mention it twice in each post.

But, yeah, Arcanum did handle the whole magic vs technology thing pretty well. For example, your spells wouldn't work too well inside of a factory because the presence of so much technology (which relies on real world physics) would mess up your spells (which rely on breaking real world physics). Or, you couldn't ride in the train if your were too powerful of a magician because you would screw up the engine just by being there (of course, you could teleport if your were REALLY powerful, but still).

Oh man, it was tons of fun.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:45 am

Sounds like Arcanum.

That's what I was thinking. Which would make it a good story, if done right.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:43 am

Just so you know, I'm not ignoring you. Reading everyone's posts and compiling a list of books I'd like to read. I'm about to settle on Perdido Street Station by China Miéville.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:06 am

It can be a great mix. I think the quality of your writing and your ability to tell a story will always be more important than your setting, and indeed genre, of choice. Tell the story you want to tell, create the characters you want to create, and the chances are your writing will come together regardless of how its setting's components might be judged as a whole in the eyes of critics. Allow me to quote the great GRRM:

Stories of the human heart in conflict with itself transcend time, place, and setting. So long as love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and sacrifice are present, it matters not a whit whether that tall, lean stranger has a proton pistol or a six-shooter in his hand. Or a sword-

...

Fantasy? Science fiction? Horror?
I say it's a story, and I say the hell with it.

But a picture is worth a thousand words, and as I don't have time to type two thousand words, here are two little pieces of history for your inspiration and/or amusemant: http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/b_harrison/misc/citadel_compendium_001.jpg - http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/b_harrison/misc/citadel_compendium_002.jpg

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:19 am

Thanks, man.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:24 am

Definitely sounds like Final Fantasy to me.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:05 am

Iron Kingdoms and Warmachine might be something you wanna look into.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:47 am

Nobody mentioned Warhammer? Come on! Colleges of Magic, and the black powder weapons from Nuln, and the ingenuity of the Dwarfs using steam engines. It's a perfect setting for an example of a fine balance between emerging technology, magic, and the superstition, ignorance, and threat of Chaos that keep everything chugging along at a slow, safe, believable pace. No industrial revolution here. S'more a... uh... pre-industrial... cowering mass too scared to go too far with anything lest the dark gods take an interest. Heh.

Can pick up Empire and Dwarf source and army books up pretty cheap. Well maybe not the source books... unless they're paperback. But yeah. Warhammer... been doing it long enough to strike a fine balance. S'worth checking out. :thumbsup: