Complete Elder Scrolls Noob : IV

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:03 am

Hey, all. I'll be honest. I never heard of Bethesda before Fallout 3. I wasn't big into RPGs at ALL. My RPG experience consisted of Pokemon Gold and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I saw Fallout 3's E3 announcement and fell in love. I have put roughly 300 hours into the game, with no intention of stopping. However, (and perhaps it's taken too long) I have become interested in Bethesda's other works. Namely Oblivion, for the simple fact that Fallout 3 is sometimes known as 'Oblivion with Guns'. I know absolutely nothing about the Elder Scrolls lore, however. I played a bit of vanilla Oblivion (The Steam Version, if it matters) and was completely lost, both literally and figuratively. I have a couple concerns:

1. What should I know about the Elder Scrolls before I jump into Oblivion for real. Is there any sort of story primer I can read? Is Morrowind a major prequel, or are the games a bit less connected story-wise? Is it strongly recommended that I play that first (Steam has the GOTY edition on sale for $5!)

2. How should I begin my adventure? Vanilla? A few essential mods? Heavily modded? (MMM, OOO, or *gasp* FCOM?) I'll be honest (again), I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to installing mods. I'm definitely an amateur, but I know my way around the Data folder, at least. I tried (for ****s and giggles) to install FCOM (along with a few other light mods and the unofficial patches) and see what happened. I actually managed to get through the installation process (yes I made a clean backup of my Oblivion folder

and the game started successfully. I rode around on horseback for about 10 minutes and CTD when I got near the Imperial City. My load order in case it interests anyone:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
02 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
03 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
04 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
05 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9a7]
06 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.0]
07 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
08 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
0B Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
0C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
0D Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp
0E Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
0F FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
10 FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
11 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
12 Natural_Weather_by_Max_Tael.esp
13 Natural_Weather_HDR_by_Max_Tael.esp
14 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
15 Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp
16 ImprovedSigns.esp
17 Living Economy.esp
18 Living Economy - Items.esp
19 DLCHorseArmor.esp
1A DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
1B DLCOrrery.esp
1C DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
1D DLCVileLair.esp
1E DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
1F DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
20 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
21 DLCSpellTomes.esp
22 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
23 DLCThievesDen.esp
24 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
25 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]
26 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
27 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
28 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
29 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9]
2A Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]
2B OOO-Water_Weeds.esp [Version 1.33]
2C FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9]
2D FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
2E Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
2F Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
30 Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
31 Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
32 Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
33 Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions MMM+Fran.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
34 Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions OOO.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
35 OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34]
36 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
37 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
38 DLCFrostcrag.esp
39 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
3A Knights.esp
3B Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
3C Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
3D Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
3E Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
3F Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
40 Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
41 Cliff_BetterLetters.esp [Version 1.1]
42 Borderless_Cyrodiil-3578.esp
43 Alternate Start Revamped.esp
44 MM_NoMoreAnnoyingMessages-Lite.esp
45 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Now, I was daunted by the process, and there were a few instances where I was lost, but I figure starting out with FCOM before I knew WTF I was doing was a bad decision anyway. So basically, I want to know how I should approach my very first full playthrough (70+ hours) of an Elder Scrolls game. I know about Wrye Bash, OBMM, BOSS, and OBSE, although I can't fully understand what a bashed patch does or what the proper way to build one is, I know the are important. The only absolutely essential mods I am aware of are DarN's UI (excellent work on the Fallout 3 UI, BTW

and the Unofficial patches. I also want to use Quarl's Texture Pack, which I already have installed, though I'll most likely need to abandon this installation.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to your responses. I have tremendous respect for both the scope of this game and it's modding community.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:39 pm

I don't think you'd really get any usefull clues from playing Morrowind for starting Oblivion - they share the same global background, there are quite a few minor references in books, rumors and such, but that's about it. On the other hand, Morrowind was a great game, so why not - but of course, technically, it has become quite a bit outdated.

How to begin, mod-wise... I don't think there's a point in playing 'vanilla' "just to know what you want to get modded", you can play with mods from the start to get the real enjoyment of the game

Although, trying to get FCOM properly installed right ahead seems a bit much. My advice: install OOO and a few (I really mean a few) secondary mods, and enjoy. Only start thinking at starting a new character with a larger installation once you feel you really know what you're doing with Wrye Bash, and OBMM.

"What a bashed patch does": in short, it extracts selected pieces of selected mods you have, combines them together to make sure (as far as is possible) they go along and don't override/scramble each other, and loads after them to solve any conflicting issues they all may have. It's a custom compatibility patch you make yourself for your own mods list.

Welcome on board, by the way

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:16 pm

Thanks for the help! What about Mart's Monster Mod? I can't play Fallout 3 without his mutant mod.

Also, how much difficulty does OOO add? I faced two bandits before my game crashed and I was killed in about 5 seconds with FCOM.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:14 am

My advice (and the majority of the advice you're going to get around here) is de-activate all of the mods and play vanilla Oblivion for your first play through. It is much more rewarding, in my opinion, to use mods when you already have a feel for the game and have a general idea of what you are doing. You're first play through needs to be a fun, streamlined experience, and having to manage all of your mods and deal with the inevitable crashes you're going to get will only ruin the experience.

Another bit of advice I can give you is do not use any guides or anything like that unless you absolutely need to. When I first started playing Oblivion, I used a guide for my entire first play through, spoiling everything for myself, and it totally ruined the experience for me. Try to just figure things out for yourself and really get into the game. It makes the whole thing a lot more fun.

If you do need some tips though, or want to learn a bit about the lore, you should check this site outt:
uesp.net - Pretty much the ultimate guide for anything Elder Scrolls. Again, don't use it to spoil anything for yourself. Only use it if you really can't figure something out, or if you just want to brush up on your lore.

If you still decide to use mods obviously that's up to you, and I'm sure you'll get some advice about doing that as well, but I still recommend holding off on mods until you've played vanilla OB and feel like you've experienced everything you'd like to in it. And when you do get mods, start small. Hold off on FCOM until you really feel that you're bored with the base game and need a change.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:50 am

I'm going to echo the recommendation to stick with UOP and perhaps a few purely aesthetic things (e.g. DarN and QTP) and experience the vanilla game for a while. This doesn't necessarily mean an entire playthrough: depending on what pushes your buttons, you might find yourself thoroughly frustrated with certain design decisions after just a few hours. But then again, you might not.

Other than the UOP, if a mod is extremely popular, it's probably because it addresses an issue that lots of people agree needs addressing. This does not mean it's the only mod addressing that issue, or the one you'll like the best. Look for alternatives before you marry yourself to one solution! This applies to many of my own mods, and it applies to OOO (and by extension, FCOM -- notably, Francsco's on its own is a solid, and quite different, alternative to OOO).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:23 am

If you can stomach the outdated graphics, Morrowind is definitely worth $5. And you can always pretty it up with various mods. But man, Morrowind is an exquisite game.

Check out http://uesp.net and http://imperial-library.net if you have any lore concerns, but lore isn't so integral to the game that you'd be lost without it. Think of the way Fallout 3 is a complete experience without the need to play the previous Fallout games.

I'd go ahead and play Oblivion mod-free, UOP and aesthetic mods excepted. I played the game on a console for three years before I played it with mods. When you know what you want to change, you'll have a much easier time choosing mods.

Also, keep an eye out for an announcement from Bethesda at E3 next week or Quakecon in August. Let's all hope it's TES V (and that it's not an MMO).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:53 am

I agree with the other comments here: play unmodded for your first play-through. If you can't finish the whole game that way, I suggest joining at least one of the guilds and try to finish their quest-line. I'd be inclined to play even without the UOP, because even that changes the game in some subtle ways that you won't discover unless you've played without it.

While Morrowind doesn't offer much in the way of lore background, Daggerfall does. I noticed that Beth finally made that one available for free, so if you've got an old pc with a crt monitor kicking around, you might want to check it out. It is pretty old and the graphics are crappy, quite frankly, but there are a lot of references to the events from Daggerfall.

Morrowind is worth playing as well, but in its own right. There are a few references to Morrowind in Oblivion, but mostly as rumours. There are some characters that moved to Cyrodiil from Morrowind and you'll understand their comments better after playing that game, but it's all minor and just an interesting tid-bit. The combat and spell casting is very different in Morrowind, though. There are some mods that address this and while Oblivion is playable unmodded, I really found Morrowind very frustrating without mods, although I did play it through once without any.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:17 pm

What's already said. Start out with the vanilla game to get a feel of it and in order to know what you'd like to change. You say you know about Wrye Bash and want to use QTP3 so this might be unnecessary but I strongly advice using BAIN for installing texture replacers (and other stuff as well). Makes it much easier to install/uninstall and also keep track on what you have. I'd also recommend QTP3 Redimized over the original, but perhaps you already are using it.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:35 am

When you get around to adding Oblivion mods...one of my favorite groups is the Unique Landscapes. I am using 22 out of the 23.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:46 am

If you can stomach the outdated graphics, Morrowind is definitely worth $5. And you can always pretty it up with various mods. But man, Morrowind is an exquisite game.

... but also be aware that Morrowind Script Extender doesn't work with the steam version (so that cuts out a considerable number of mods).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:48 am

What's already said. Start out with the vanilla game to get a feel of it and in order to know what you'd like to change. You say you know about Wrye Bash and want to use QTP3 so this might be unnecessary but I strongly advice using BAIN for installing texture replacers (and other stuff as well). Makes it much easier to install/uninstall and also keep track on what you have. I'd also recommend QTP3 Redimized over the original, but perhaps you already are using it.

Yeah I got the Redimized pack. Also, I made an OMOD with OBMM for QTP. I have no idea how to use Bash Installers (BAIN) though

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:20 am

... but also be aware that Morrowind Script Extender doesn't work with the steam version (so that cuts out a considerable number of mods).

Apparently it's been working for nearly a year:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=913449

Scared me for a minute

EDIT:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/195079-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/

*reads*

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:40 am

What others have said. Start unmodded and find out what you like and don't like before you dive into mods.

For practical advice on what to do straight off, I would suggest-

Going through the Imperial sewers/starter dungeon collecting anything of value, then going to the Imperial City Market District to sell what you don't need to get some gold. Then return to Vilverin (The white ruin directly opposite the exit from the Imperial Sewer).

work your way through Vilverin dungeons, it has a mix of enemies and shouldn't present too much challenge (assuming you are not using an overhaul), you will learn a lot about combat/looting and dungeons generally from Vilverin. Then back to the Market District to sell your loot.

After this you may want to start the main quest by delivering the amulet in order to give some structure to your first few hours of playing.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 pm

Yeah I got the Redimized pack. Also, I made an OMOD with OBMM for QTP. I have no idea how to use Bash Installers (BAIN) though

OBMM works fine. You can postpone getting acquainted with BAIN to later. It's quite easy to use, you basically right click the package and go from there, BAIN ready archives will have have folders etc. that you can check in the windows. But, as said, OBMM gets the job done as well.

EDIT - Here are some mods I'd start to use rather quickly if starting from vanilla - I mean, even if wanting a game as close to vanilla as possible:

DarN's UI - But you knew that.
Initial Glow - To get rid of the enchantment wrap effect.
UOP - No reason to wait IMO.
Quest Award Leveler - In vanilla you're punished for getting quest awards on low levels.
Menu Escape, Toggleable Quantity Prompt, ATakesAll - OBSE plugins making menu managing much smoother.

Also, as you're going to use QTP3 I'd recommend http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/totoworld.html and Bomret's Texture Pack - Shivering Isles (if you have SI of course). But I'd recommend starting with vanilla when it comes to textures as well - if nothing else to appreciate the difference.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:42 am

I agree that it's best to start out with a basically vanilla (unmodded) setup, then add mods as you discover aspects you feel need improvement, or to add new dimensions to gameplay (quests, factions, companions, structures, gear, improved graphics, etc). I myself have been playing over a year and am still on my first play-through with my original avatar. I've not yet seen a need for any of the major overhauls, though I might add OOO and LAME next play-through. On the other hand, I find that I'm a quest junkie, so have lots of quest-oriented mods installed (Kragenir, WIndfall, Lost Spires, Verona House Bloodlines, etc.) I also like adding new villages and cities, especially those with quests (Bartholm, Feldscar, etc). And of course there's Elsweyr Anequina, which adds a whole province (and quests).

That said, I'll mention a set of individual mods that, used in conjunction, greatly increased my enjoyment of nighttime game-play:

1.) OC Darker nights. Lack of a truly dark night sky was the very first thing I came to dislike about Oblivion. Some months later, when beginning to add mods to the game, a night-sky darkener was top priority. I had no need for an elaborate weather mod, so OC Darker Nights fit the bill perfectly. I've used it ever since without issue.

2.) Animated Window Lighting System (and Chimneys). Lack of nighttime structure lighting was another early annoyance. Of the competing Lighting mods AWLS is the most popular, versatile, and easily configurable. It also has little impact on performance.

3.) Drop-Lit Torches OBSE. With nights now appreciably darker, torches are far more useful. Being able to hot-key them is a blessing. Plus, the ability to drop them on the ground while fighting is a great aid during nighttime (and darkened dungeon) battles.

These three, in conjunction with an INI change to increase visible light-source distance, are indispensable for me. Of all the mods I use, they are the ones I wish I'd had installed from the beginning.

-Decrepit-

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:01 pm

OK, I do have one more question. If I understand this correctly, Obleivion's leveling system is such that the world around me 'levels up' as I do, so that, at level 25, I will no longer encounter weak bandits or common wolves, but much more powerful enemies. Is there a simple mod (that doesn't change too much of the game) that allows me to encounter weaker enemies at higher levels (and coincidentally, stronger enemies at lower levels.) also, the quest rewards frankly svck. I hear that the rewards level with you as well, so what's the point of doing the majority of the quests before I hit at least level 15?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:03 am

I absolutely disagree with the other posts in this thread. There's no reason to play through the game first without mods. Now, you may want to play Vanilla for a couple hours just to see how you will improve it, but I find it simply masochistic to want to play Vanilla Oblivion all the way through for your first time. Certainly, I understand wanting to play a game that is relatively close to the developer's original vision your first time, and for that reason you may want to hold off on any overhauls, but there are mods that unequivocally improve the game, and those absolutely should be used. I cannot envision how one could recommend against installing mods like Quest Award Leveler or Toggleable Quantity Prompt or Retroactive Training Sessions.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:48 am

I guess that's exactly what I'm looking for. Mods that fix problems with the game. I already installed a bunch of graphics mods (QTP, LOD Fixes, Improved face textures) as well as the unofficial patches and small improvements like Darn's UI, colored map, borderless cyrodiil, better letters, and things like that. I'm now looking for quest fixes and leveling tweaks to make sure I don't run into problems down the road (like bandits in glass armor or something equally absurd).

That quest award leveller is exactly the type of mod I'm looking for. Is there anything that limits Oblivion's dynamic world leveling I want to feel somewhat badass when I reach level 25. Sure I want tough fights, but I'd also like some encounters to display exactly how strong I've become.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:54 am

I guess that's exactly what I'm looking for. Mods that fix problems with the game.

I believe this is why most here are telling you to go easy on the mods the first play through. How do you know what the problems are (for you) if you don't know what you do and don't like about the original game? Everyone is different and everyone likes different things so it's very hard to direct a newcomer without an idea of what that person wants. Examples: I don't use a different leveling mod. The vanilla one works fine for me. I never did the major is minor thing in the unmodded game and did just fine. I don't use a quest reward leveler. I find I can make things myself that suits me and my character much better than what's in the game. I have more fun doing that then worrying about if an item I got from a quest is powerful enough. Again, both are very different answers than what you've gotten so far. Mostly because I'm weird I guess

.

Is there anything that limits Oblivion's dynamic world leveling I want to feel somewhat badass when I reach level 25. Sure I want tough fights, but I'd also like some encounters to display exactly how strong I've become.

OOO overhaul does this nicely. You may find this one overhaul addresses all your needs in one shot (Again, you might not). There's new weapons to find and pretty powerful. Some added quests, etc. Places where you definitely do not belong at lower levels and may find yourself having to run for the hills and places you can go safely as a low level. As you gain levels and become more powerful, those pesky bandits and unorganized bands become easy and will even sometimes run. You also can be served a load of humble pie when necessary

Leveling is done by making sure your majors are what you want your character to use and eliminates the need for major is minor. In fact, they specifically tell you that type of leveling is a bad idea. FCOM, Frans, MMM I can't speak to as I only use OOO. It suits my play style very well. Others may disagree

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 am

I guess that's exactly what I'm looking for. Mods that fix problems with the game. I already installed a bunch of graphics mods (QTP, LOD Fixes, Improved face textures) as well as the unofficial patches and small improvements like Darn's UI, colored map, borderless cyrodiil, better letters, and things like that. I'm now looking for quest fixes and leveling tweaks to make sure I don't run into problems down the road (like bandits in glass armor or something equally absurd).

That quest award leveller is exactly the type of mod I'm looking for. Is there anything that limits Oblivion's dynamic world leveling I want to feel somewhat badass when I reach level 25. Sure I want tough fights, but I'd also like some encounters to display exactly how strong I've become.

If you liked fallout3 leveling system(player and mobs), there's http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15619 (classic rpg leveling system) and http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23993

As for a first play, as many suggested, you could add uop and some cosmetic mods. I'd stay away from QTP for first time so when you add it later you can see how big difference it makes. If you add all great mods at start you won't have the "this is [censored] awesome" feeling you'd have after you tasted some vanilla

.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:45 am

Is there a simple mod (that doesn't change too much of the game) that allows me to encounter weaker enemies at higher levels (and coincidentally, stronger enemies at lower levels.)

Francesco's Leveled Creatures and Items mod does a solid job of this. No need to download the extra creatures and items, just get the core mod. There's still some scaling, but you'll frequently encounter tougher enemies or weaker ones (sometimes in groups), and all the bandits in the world don't suddenly start wearing daedric armor the instant you hit level 20.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:27 pm

I must say I agree with OuijaU. I've played Oblivion for thousands of hours (I believe it's almost 3000) and I've never loaded any of the overhaul mods like OOO, Francesco's or MMM. Even the graphic effects differ. I loaded QTP 3 on one play through and just didn't like it in combination with some other things. This time through I did load QTP 3, full, not rediminized. You won't even be able to tell what changes some of these mods make if you don't play the game unmodded. As I said previously, you may not want to finish, but you should at least have a look. On my very first play-through, I just did the Fighters Guild, Mages Guild and main quest. I was done the game by level 10, I think it was...

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:26 pm

My advice is to go light on the mods. In my opinion, the original unmodded game is pretty decent as it is.