I moved my post from another topic so as not to hijack that other topic:


This is a little off topic because this is about PLAYER game skill not character in game skill. But not too far off topic.

The Duke Patrick Combat Archery mod is one of my combat realism mods. And your statement fascinates me on an academic level as well as a personal level (as a game designer).

You are hardly the only one that feels this way. But I have to ask you your opinion, why is it in real life (I do RL archery combat in real armor with real bows including 1000 pound ...thats draw not wieght... crossbows but we use blunt plastic tips) that tripping on dead bodies and rocks does not stop us (in the SCA) from having fun and wanting to still play this even after 30 years?

What is the PC game missing from real life (the SCA game) that is needed so that tripping on rocks if you are not careful or do not use proper skills (such as circling rather than walking strait backward) will make the total package of the "realistic and fun" worth it?

Is it that you do to have a good way to learn the proper skills to overcome "tripping over rocks"?

This is not a statement intended to belittle you, I really think that this is the key to getting players to like playing realism, games need better ways to train the player to "do it right".

I stumble over rocks/dead in the game (with my mods) maybe once in several weeks of game play at the most because I know how to do it right. But that is because I have had 30 years of RL combat training moving around the battle field in a full helm (limited visibility) littered with dead bodies (when we "die" we must fall to the ground until the battle is over) and real life rocks and the dreaded ankle breaking gopher holes.

Maybe games need to start seriously doing this, finding fun ways to train the players in their skills rather than using the "sink or swim" method?
I ask because immersion type games NEED to become more orientated to realism so that we all can get closer to the day we have Holo-decks. (no joke I am serious about that.)

One of my ideas (I have had for many years) is to make these immersion type games in a way that other players IN THE GAME can train you.

Just imagine (thru the Internet) coming to my "combat school" ( or other players that have masted a skill ) and learning to circle and move with short momnets of movement so momentum never get up too high and in general the skills to prevent tripping while navigating the battle field? As well as how to block with your shield the right way and how to throw sword blows that trick your opponents into dropping their shield out of the way.

All of this IN GAME in a simular way we do it in real life in the SCA.

I really believe this is possible and I want to work to have this in games someday. We already have the technology to do this we have had it for over 15 years, it is just that no game DEV has tried this idea...yet!

So again my question is IF you could be trained in the game (as part of the game) to overcome the tripping hazards, if you could be given a player skill (and an invisible actor skill or incorporate existing ones like agility which I do already in my mod) in the game that made it so that you only tripped if you were not careful and did not use that skill (either because you are startled, exhausted too injured or what ever) would that bring back the fun for you?



Achromatis, on 16 February 2011 - 02:56 AM, said:

I think Duke Patrick has some really great Oblivion mods that are sort of the same thing. With Combat Archery it really changes the entire game, but after a while tripping on rocks or bodies just isnt fun anymore. Or using mods like Realistic Fatigue(not a Duke one) just get annoying after a while. But I know there are people who really enjoy those kinds of mods and even tweak them for further realism.

Well, this kind of things can be learned with practise, but of course being teached is a handy thing while is something optional.

The more annoying thing about going to the ground in Oblivion, is that you are completely helpless until you stand up again. They should introduce combat moves while you are prone (reducing your character skill rates, but not getting you helpless).

Similarly every aspect of RL combat, should be introduced with care in order to not make the game annoying, implementing also the RL counter, or when technical reasons won't let this, a relatively reasonable fantasy counter.

Never gonna happen. Just as multiplayer is never gonna happen in TES.

Not sure about that, as it seems other Duke patrick's mods features like bows modifications, and backpedal reducing (maybe even the magic shielding in magical combat?) is an inspiration source for Skyrim developers.

I dont see why it shouldnt be in the game. I, for one, would very much like to see it.

True, RPGs are about the character's skill. But in games where the player has control over when, where and how to attack in the way that TES games do (as opposed to say DA:O, Drakensang, NWN, BG and the like where the player just orders the attack and the character executes it his way and everything depends on character stats), i think that player skill is taken into consideration anyway when backpedaling, strafing, kiting, hiding, etc, all of which are PLAYER skills and not the character's skills.

Still, I'd prefer if as much as possible, the character's skill is considered in how successful he executes something. So in DP's example, the player might be taught how to move to avoid stumbling obstaces but then the character's skill determines stumble/trip chances when he does run into them anyway.

EDIT: if its not going to be in a game, it'll be because they dont want to scare off those who want an "easier" experience