I've started to have a problem with a crash to desktop outside of Skingrad, the cell just outside the West gate, with the vineyards. I can load into Skingrad fine, I can load at the Fat Rat Camp, but when I try to either walk from Fat Rat Camp into the cell with the vineyards (from any direction, whether travelling down the road, or cross-country), or by trying to go out the West Gate from inside Skingrad, I immediately crash to desktop.

I installed FCOM before beginning this character, and previously, was able to enter this cell with no problem. I haven't made any changes to the installed mods (that is, I haven't updated any to a newer version, or added any news mods - everything is exactly the same as when I started this character).

This is very frustrating - I have two quests which both require me to enter this cell, but I cannot without crashing.

If anyone is interested in trying to diagnose the problem, I'd be happy to post a game save file somewhere you could load to try to debug this. If anyone can provide any advice on how I might go about debugging this myself, I'm happy to listen.

Anyhow, I guess as a starting point, the load order with all the mods listed would be helpful:



Oblivion.esm
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
FCOM_Convergence.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
FCOM_Francescos.esp
FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp
FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
FCOM_BobsArmory.esp
Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
FCOM_WarCry.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
FCOM_Convergence.esp
FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp
FCOM_RealSwords.esp
FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp
FCOM_SaferRoads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp
FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp
FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp
FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp
FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp
FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
FCOM_Knights.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp - Probably shouldn't use this. It duplicates the regular Bob's Armory, I believe, and could end up with you getting too many Bob's items.
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp - This one can cause crashes with current version I'm told.

Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp - You can try removing both or either of these. Along with taking some stress off your system, it should force the spawns to reset and might fix the bad spawn that is causing your issue.

Well, I tried using Bash to disable those 4 mods, then rebuilt the bashed patch. Loaded the game (got the error about the save referencing mods that are no longer available, and selected the option to continue). Tried going out the West Gate and it still crashed, so I think it's probably not those mods. Any other ideas?

Nothing obvious. Post your load order from Wrye Bash (right click header in mods tab, choose List Mods) so we can see version numbers. Maybe there's a mismatch there.

Otherwise, you'll have to try waiting out the respawn period somewhere else and see if the new set of spawns is better.

Well, a few things to note: I tried to see if I could narrow down what mod was causing the problem, by trying to unload mods until the crash went away. Unfortunately, even when the *only* thing loaded was the Oblivion.esm file, it would still crash when I tried to go out the West Gate. Odd.

As for waiting out the respawn period - I already did that once. It did seem to let me enter that cell, but then like 2 minutes later (after going to Fat Rat Camp, clearing out some bandits, getting some loot, picking some flowers, leaves and such, then trying to walk back to the Skingrad west gate, I crashed again.

I'm afraid that waiting out the respawn seems to be a very temporary fix at best. It would be nice to figure out what is causing the crash, if possible.


To that end, here's the Wrye Bash 'List Mods' output (let me know if you see any old versions, incompatible versions, or anything else wrong):

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]04  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]05  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]06  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]07  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp0D  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp0E  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]0F  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  DLCHorseArmor.esp12  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]13  DLCOrrery.esp14  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]15  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp16  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]17  DLCSpellTomes.esp18  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]19  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp1A  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1B  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp1C  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]1D  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]1E  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]1F  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]20  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]21  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]22  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]23  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]24  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]25  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]26  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]27  Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]28  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]29  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2A  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2B  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2C  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2F  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]36  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]37  DLCFrostcrag.esp38  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]39  Knights.esp3A  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]3B  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]3C  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]3D  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]3E  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]3F  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]40  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

If your still consistently crashing without any mods, I'm guessing it's a mesh problem (based on personal experience troubleshooting at least). You can try renaming the mesh folder temporarily, then try. Obviously you'll get missing mesh errors everywhere, but it's mainly just to see if it'll crash or not to isolate the problem.

Well, I tried that, but even with the Oblivion/Data/Meshes folder renamed, it crashed when going out the west gate. Was worth a shot thought. Wierd problem.

Is there any tool that allows you to examine save files, and for example, see what settings/variables are affecting that particular cell (e.g. the list of spawned items, npcs, creatures, etc), to try to find out what might be wrong?

You may have to try going back to a previous save and seeing if the save itself is corrupted.

Also, you should get the fixed version of this: 2C Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

Third post of the MMM thread.

Try removing MMM Farm Animals and see if that make a difference since it add a spawn point for it farms animals around that location..

But it could also be related to Npc spawn point down the road and mwl adding a spawing point by the dungeon.

I've gotten the same issue before, and fixed it by going back a few saves. However I'm only using OOO and MMM, so the issue is probably with either of those two mods. Just try fast travelling there with your old save. when you get the chance.

The Skingrad area is notorious for attracting crashes. Issue could be save corruption, spawn point corruption, or even that M'aiq bug that Arthmoor was dealing with.