Project Purity is pretty unnessecary : Fallout Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:09 pm

*cough* its not real world science damnit *cough*

*cough* it takes place in the real world and while mutants and ghouls probably wouldn't even exist and humanity would be most likely wiped off the face of the earth by then because of the radiation that doesn't mean that it isn't easier more realistic to filter the water through earth than through a giant water purification plant *cough*

Woah! That was a big one...excuse me.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:33 pm

Is it said in the game that Project Purity boils the water to purify it?

It isn't, as far as I know, I don't believe it's ever explained exactly how it's done.

But in any case, while using soil for water filtration might do what Project Purity was meant to, it would probably be rather difficult to do it on the scale that the project requires, and in any case, Project Purity was mostly a plot device used so that Bethesda could tell the story they wanted, I think, it gave James a reason to leave the fault and gave you something to fight for after finding him. In the end, as has been said, Fallout is a little light on the "science" part of science fiction. There are, of course, science-fiction settings that are even softer than Fallout, but it's still far from what I'd call "hard science fiction", so the real problem we must be concerned with is not whether any addition to the world is consistent with real world science, but whether it is consistent with the rest of Fallout.

Nope its just irrelelevent The vaults have clean water because they have some computer controlled distillation process. Thats what your quest in FO1 is about. The water purification chip fails and you have to go find a new one. The process is very ineffecient and complex and is really only suitable for supporting small numbers of people.

Radiation wouldn't be a problem, but realistically, sanitation would, however, that doesn't play into Fallout 3.

This is also the reason for the mutated species. Check out The Info? as well as reading the Fallout Bible at the Wikia site if you're truly interested in why things are as they are in the Falloutverse. It's not all radiation, but a combination of Radiation and low-level FEV exposure. I'm sure that Limit 115 also has something to do with it. There's much more than Radiation at work in the ground/air/DNA of the Falloutverse..

Still, even with FEV involved, it's still unrealistic, because I'm fairly certain no virus could completely rework the DNA structure of an entire person, and if it did, it still probably wouldn't show the changes until the next generation, and certainly not almost immediately as seems to be the case with super mutants.

The desertification is in the world of Fallout caused in large scale by the exposure to FEV which was released cause of a nuclear hit.

It seems unlikely that a virus that is supposed to cause near instant evolution (how that works I don't know.) will induce desertification, it seems much more believable to just assume that the blast and radiation killed the plants and caused the state of the soil we see now, though that doesn't account for the utter absence of rain.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:49 am

I don't believe it's ever explained exactly how it's done.

Someone on another board hypothesized, based on what you see when you turn it on at the end, that the spirit of Thomas Jefferson is separating the radiation and the water like church and state with the force of his stony gaze. ^_^

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:15 am

Someone on another board hypothesized, based on what you see when you turn it on at the end, that the spirit of Thomas Jefferson is separating the radiation and the water like church and state with the force of his stony gaze. ^_^

Ive never seen it explained anywhere either. Of course the problem with the water is never exactly explained either. I mean the water in the Potomic river is 1 rad. Normal water is not radioactive and cannot be made radioactive either unless it is contaminated with Fallout. So the problems with the water must be multiple. As I said in a previous post I suspect that there is continual contamination from a variety of sourcses. For one I think there is the presence of Heavey water, also heavey metals and possibly other chemical contaminates that are highly toxic and may contain carcinogens and mutagens. Lastly there must be persistant BIO agents like FEV in the water. It would not be a simple matter to remove this stuff it would be damned near impossible You would have to use some form of distilation but that would only take care of Fallout and Bio agents. It would do nothing about heavey water and light weight chemical contaminates.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:23 am

Seriously, folks: it's Science! (and/or Radiation!). There is no other logic involved, and looking for any in a game/setting like this is a futile endeavor.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:59 am

*cough* it takes place in the real world and while mutants and ghouls probably wouldn't even exist and humanity would be most likely wiped off the face of the earth by then because of the radiation that doesn't mean that it isn't easier more realistic to filter the water through earth than through a giant water purification plant *cough*

Woah! That was a big one...excuse me.

*cough* Again, NOT REAL WORLD SCIENCE *Cough*

*cough* Research what the developers said about science in Fallout *Cough*

*cough* as the person said above, and the devs say, Science! not science *cough*

*Cough* Consult the GURPS gamemaster guide if you dont understand whats meant by Science *Cough*

Does anyone have a glass of water?

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:42 pm

Seriously, folks: it's Science! (and/or Radiation!). There is no other logic involved, and looking for any in a game/setting like this is a futile endeavor.

Maybe for you. But some of us want more. If your OK with its Science! Thats fine. The fact is manyt of us know that Bethesda Dev's did not put any more thought into it then that and probably wisely never tried to explain it beyond that, leaving it to the imaginations of the player(s). I pretty much assumed that was a given. What some of us have been trying to point out is how unbelievale and implausible this CAN be and try to offer alternate or additional possibilities for the sake of plausibility and suspension of disbelief and RP value. Because I dont care how much you say But Its Science! that does nothing to explain it or make it more plausible. I realise there are people who play this and other games who would be perfectly satisfied with any explanation including that it was a gift from Santa Claus. Not this player and apparrently quite a few others.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:24 am

Fine, whatever makes you happy. I'm just warning you now, there's no there there.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:23 pm

Maybe for you. But some of us want more. If your OK with its Science! Thats fine. The fact is manyt of us know that Bethesda Dev's did not put any more thought into it then that and probably wisely never tried to explain it beyond that, leaving it to the imaginations of the player(s). I pretty much assumed that was a given. What some of us have been trying to point out is how unbelievale and implausible this CAN be and try to offer alternate or additional possibilities for the sake of plausibility and suspension of disbelief and RP value. Because I dont care how much you say But Its Science! that does nothing to explain it or make it more plausible. I realise there are people who play this and other games who would be perfectly satisfied with any explanation including that it was a gift from Santa Claus. Not this player and apparrently quite a few others.

Next up Bockscar explains to us why Cyrdil's economy doesnt work :banghead:

Despite its similarities, it isnt the real world, and you shouldnt treat it as such.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:05 am

Next up Bockscar explains to us why Cyrdil's economy doesnt work :banghead:

Despite its similarities, it isnt the real world, and you shouldnt treat it as such.

Oh really its not the real world seriously? Wow you astound me with your insights. I'll leave the Economics lessons to you too. By the way F***K OFF!!

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:14 am

Oh really its not the real world seriously? Wow you astound me with your insights. I'll leave the Economics lessons to you too. By the way F***K OFF!!

*sigh*

I mean, what did you expect? You're overanolyising over.... Absolutely Nothing at all.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:29 am

What's wrong with rads, it made the animals bigger and stronger, ghouls live a very long time and radiation heals them. I only wish I could be a ghoul in the game

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:30 pm

I think the real problem lies in the lack of buildup. Even if Project Purity looks unnecessary by real world standards, with proper buildup they could have made it look like the Capital Wasteland urgently needed it.

Think about it. Nobody in the wasteland complains about the water except for a few hobos. In over a dozen locations, you don't see anyone suffering from any ill effects from having been drinking irradiated water for the past 200 years. The only bit of foreshadowing that the game offers is in Megaton and is easily missed. Billy Creel directs you to Walter, and Walter says that "the water purifier's about to go." Megaton has been getting clean water for the better part of the past two centuries, but now that it's about to break, I'm guessing that it's supposed to make the player feel just how necessary Project Purity is going to be. Despite the fact that you can go for months in the game and the purifier never actually does break. And even then, they can always just build a new one!

Even the Lone Wanderer can drink himself silly with irradiated water, but a quick shot from the Doctor removes all the rads. So I'm guessing these people have complete mastery over radiation. Or is that just supposed to be a gameplay effect that's not to be considered canon? Whatever it is, it undermines the threat of irradiated water in my eyes.

In other words, water is never shown as posing a threat to anyone for the entire course of the game. I get the feeling that if Project Purity got up and running the first time without

Spoiler

Enclave intervention

, the people's reaction would be ""Oh? Well...jolly good then, I guess." And when people started getting killed over it, I could only shake my head at how shallow the main conflict was.

I'm all for suspension of belief. But the writers have to earn it through good storytelling. I think that should extend beyond "Here's Project Purity. It's reeealllyyy important."

You forget that nobody actually needs water, it's just something to give you an HP fill!
;)

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:39 pm

Project Purity, more like Project Unnecessary.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 pm

What's wrong with rads, it made the animals bigger and stronger, ghouls live a very long time and radiation heals them. I only wish I could be a ghoul in the game

Ghouls cannot breed. When they die, eventually from Disease or "Lead Poisoning", so would humanity if they were all that was left.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:27 am

The Fallout world does not merely diverge historically. The laws of physics in the Fallout universe are fundamentally different. The "World of Tomorrow" theme is not limited to what technologies exist and how history unfolded; it also applies to the laws of physics, where Science!, not science, is dominant.

Quoted from The Vault. Do note the last bolded line.