been eating raw lamb since i was an infant and nothing has happened to me.

Just because you're a vegetarian doesn't mean you aren't going to get salmonella (or anything else for that matter).

A couple of years ago spinach was being recalled because there had been reports of people getting salmonella poisoning from it. It's not so much what you eat but how what you eat is handled.

Locally grown food isn't necessarily better for the environment than stuff that's flown in. Only 4% of the total emissions produced in food production come from the transportation. To grow things locally that are best grown elsewhere, you need more intensive irrigation and stronger fertiizers.

Protip: Farmers Market food and Supermarket food is the same thing, the supermarkets get first pick, then everything else gets sold at farmers markets. I know this because my dad runs a produce distribution warehouse.
The only difference is supermarket food has less spots and is more expensive.

"Oooh, so Mother Nature needs a favor?! Well maybe she should have thought of that when she was besetting us with droughts and floods and poison monkeys! Nature started the fight for survival, and now she wants to quit because she’s losing. Well I say, hard cheese."
-Mr Burns on environmentalism

So you jumped from "there's poisonous stuff" to "world vs. humanity".

You'd make a fine philosopher is all I can say.

It's why you should eat fruits and vegetables in season if you are going to eat local think global.
Transportation is only one of many ways in which petroleum products are used in agriculture, fertilizer being another.
There's all sorts of chemicals used to ripen, to kill or prevent pest infestation, to increase growth, and speed up maturation. The size of a farm is not indicitive of whether or not it uses pesticides, growth, ripening, and maturation hormones, harsh chemical fertlizers. Growing organically is expensive, and truly organic produce isn't tainted by aforementioned contaminants. Vegetables and fruits are also notorious vectors for disease transmission, it's not just meats. Unsanitary conditions exist, whether on the field or present on the worker, so washing fresh produce well, and preparing it properly, ensures that it doesn't become cross contaminated or become a contaminant.


As for me, the garden, which is organic, is not only a source of fresh food unspoiled by hormones, chemicals, and other pollutants. It's a sort of therapy, an ongoing constantly changing process.
It's also quite nice to walk outside and pick fresh veggies for lunch, or see the kids picking peas to go rinse and eat raw. I know what went into that soil. The surrounding lawns and foliage is also chemical free, and maintained by either use of hand or manual tools or electric. No machines spitting fumes on my veggies.

As for farmers markets, it is true that most produce does go to to supermarket chains. However, there are small hobby, as well as organic farmers that rent space at our huge local farmers market, and they have wonderfully fresh and tasty fruits, veggies, honeys, jams, jellies, oils, organic refrigorated free range eggs, and chickens, They know they have a niche market and they capitalize on it. The agricultural inspectors are always out and about here, and there are strict guidelines on what can and can't be considered organic and free range. There are also strict guidelines on what can and can't be sold from hobby or backyard gardners.

So do I - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain.

That's probably not what you meant though.

I'm not in an area historically known for acid rain.

That makes absolutely no sense. Sulphur goes up into the air, floats around (a lot), then gets "picked up" by rain falling down. Every area on Earth is known for acid rain.

I would say we've done pretty well for ourselves, what with turning a hostile and deadly world in which you survive day to day into a thriving community with advances in technology, regulations, and inspections to help us stay healthy. Mistakes will be made though, and they always will be.

Unless you get too happy (gasp! ).


Not really. Philosophy (of the Descartes strain, anyway) relies on logic.


Normal rain is acidic, yes, but not greatly so (pH of over 5.7). Acid rain is exceptionally acidic, and saying all rain is technically acid rain is technically wrong .

Mamagato was referring to notably acidic rainfall, and it that context her post does make plenty of sense.

You are absolutely correct. I know this because me and my family are peach farmers.

This made me think of "Oryx and Crake", although I think there was a great passage in The Handmaid's Tale that riffed off of the foot and mouth thing. I eat meat when I can, but my budget doesn't allow for it much. I don't have an outside space, so growing my own veggies isn't an option, and I'll go for the cheapest every time - I was raised on all that cheap crap, and while they may not be the best cuts, I can't afford anything better. I remember reading somewhere that if everywhere went "organic" the people reliant on the cheapest means of production (not me by any means) would have starved years ago, seeing as GM crops tend to have a higher yield or something. Wish I knew where I read it - will link if I can be bothered to find out. As it is I'm fascinated by the idea of pigoons and chickienobs, but not necessarily disgusted by them. Either way, I'm in no position to change anything.

Some days it seems that studies show that nearly everything is toxic for us.

The poster above me made me think of my grandmother's farm, eating sweet fresh washed peaches from her trees, making pear relish, and best of all, picking muscadine and scuppernong graqes from under the arbor. She wouldn't mow the meadow until after July, when everything but the peppers were wilted from the heat. She wanted the bees to come. I also spent summers at aunt's farm, did the whole nine yards, cows, chickens, pigs, vegetable garden, fruit orchard. Good times, good memories.
Nowdays one would be fined by the city or county for letting the wildflowers grow, and no one can keep livestock, even chickens, here. Not without massive amounts of paperwork and inspections.

Also, Chineapple, you could try container gardening, hanging baskets of herbs, tomatoes, berries, etc.

The whole point of using all the chemicals and junk is to increase production, and thus profits. The downside is that the food value is not really factored in.

When shopping for produce, I make my choices based on quality, not price. In my eyes, there's not much point in paying a dollar or two less if what I get is less enjoyable and less good for me. However, I do have enough income (well, few enough outgoings would be more accurate) that I have that choice.


Yes, but http://northcountrynotes.org/jason-rohrer/natureOnTrial/ .

I'd have to get hanging baskets, along with whatever brackets I'd need for my flat (inc. getting someone to actually fit them lol), as I have no window room or anything, and I reckon it would be cheaper to just buy what I need, seeing as I'm only feeding one. I couldn't imagine hanging out of my window to get a couple of tomatoes, and my neighbours clearly don't see the point either lol, but I see your point. But it all takes start up capital, which I don't have. If I don't get any overtime, I've got ￡10 a week to live on (inc. petrol, phone etc.). I can't afford to be fussing about - I live hand to mouth, which means the cheapest way possible (canned/frozen veggies most of the time, seeing as you can stock up when you've got the money).

[Edit] Here's an article I found on organic produce, although I'd wager there's a fair bit of bias. But like I said, I'm not in a position to challenge the status quo just because I think something might taste better, or would benefit their career choice. http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019

the rate of death is the lowest its ever been in history, the rate of birth is the highest its ever been in any other century, people live longer than they ever have before.

and for some reason people are more afraid of death than at any other point.

by the way, if you want to freak some one out when they are afraid to try something like a roller coaster or fly on a plane, you should inform them that the most likely place you are to die is in your bathroom.

There will always be plenty of things to kill us.

Its that whole circle of life and death crap, if we get rid of something that could kill us eventually there will be something else that is just or even more deadly thats sprouts out. A never ending cycle.

I could care less about death rates in my bathroom, one you spend more time in their anyways so its bound to have a higher death rate.

Suicides might distort the figure, too.

The criteria here for organic food is pretty strict, still one has to be choosy and read labels. As far as pesticides go, I don't use anything except safer soap. It basically is a biological , non-toxic soap that blocks the breathing spicules of insects, thereby suffocating them. I have birdfeeders and water dishes for birds to encourage natural pest predation, as well as a healthy local anole population. I don't spray the yard for insects. The cats and dogs are groomed everyday, and we use diatemaceous earth. All it is is the skeletons of old dead sea creatures, but it cuts the exoskeletons of bugs and makes them bleed. I don't have a lot of garden pests, actually.
Of course plants make toxins, and those naturally occuring toxins were used hundreds of years ago, pyrethrin by the chinese, for example. (It comes from chrysanthemums, members of the daisy family). It is true, however, that things that are "naturaly occuring" can be toxic.
As far as taste, home grown and organically farmed veggies taste better because they are picked when mature. Produce picked while green and ripened with ethylene gas (which is a naturally occuring product of fruit ripening) tastes less flavorful because the flesh/sugars/cell structures in the ovary/seed/fruit/vegetable haven't broken down and released all the components that make them taste good. Plants, (especially orchids) are underestimated for their "cleverness". Humans have been pherome and aroma tempted by plants for years to eat plant young and spread their seeds.

I do understand, though, how much it does cost for planters, hardware, growing medium, and other startup costs.
Oh, and as much as I agreed on several points teh author made, he omitted several important issues regarding farming. The fact that hundreds of arable acres of farmland have been turned into housing developments, and for many home gardeners, growing produce or having l is forbidden by homeowner associations, and in some cities, livestock of all forms is illegal.


Knowing me, I will be out in teh garden one day, forget to eat, and die of a diabetic coma under a hanging basket of strawberries.

And you obviously do know that there are other "strains" of philosophy, e.g. those whose purpose is to talk about nothing (not not talk about anything, but actually talk about nothing), so you obviously do know what I'm talking about.

This sort of thing wouldn't really affect me, but I want to follow through on the comment.

You just told a person that is scared of grand things to be scared of little things, and even if you succeed in making them afraid of little things, they are not going to give up their fear of grand things, it will just be extrapolated. Terrorist! :nono:

You certainly know your multiple ways to say the same thing, I'll give you that.