That's the big question. In one version of the story, Jygallag was busy conquering the cosmos when the other Princes cursed him with madness, turning him into Sheogorath. In the other, implied, but not explicitly stated story, Arden Sul mantled Sheogorath, and became Sheogorath. And then the PC did the same thing... but freed Jyggalag/Sheogorath from the Graymarch cycle in the process. Did Arden-Sul do the same thing? Or did Arden-Sul's ascension coincide, in some sense, with Jygallag's original curse?

TES is filled with stories like this. Did Dagoth Ur work with the Nords? Or with Nerevar? Did Vehk murder Nerevar, or did Vivec guide him to his ultimate destiny? Who was Tiber Septim? To whom was the Mantella given? Where Were You When The Dragon Broke?

I sort of figured that the Sheogorath you see in the Shivering Isles is the original Sheogorath. Orginally, he was Jygalagg. The other Daedra got mad, cursed him, and changed him into Sheogorath. He was illusioned, but still had Daedric power. He created the realm of madness. At the end of every era, he changed into Jygalag to reclaim his old realm and return it into order, only to change back to Sheogorath and then make everything insane again. When the Oblivion PC come in, that's when things change. He, at the end when you imburse that staff into the Font of Madness, became a Daedric Prince right there. Immortal, cannot die, control over any and everything in the isles. (Of course, you can still die in game, but that's for gameplay reasons.) When he repelled Jygalg in battle, Jygalag became convinced that he had became a Daedric Prince, or close enough to one so that he wouldn't ever have to become Sheogorath again. Seeing that, he stopped the fight and left the new god his own land. Instead of two entities existing with only one person to be both, their were two people, two gods, two realms, etc...etc... Of course, the physical appearence of Sheogorath is whatever Bethesda decides it to be. Some peoples games may be and orc, a bosmer, a dunmer, an imperail, etc...etc... I kind of figure that the cannonical appearance of Oblivion's PC at the end of the whole expierence, is the way Sheogorath appears in the Shivering Isles. Beard, snake eyes, and "Sheogorath's Regalia".

Of course, maybe the whole thing was set up by the true Sheogorath, and the Isles you see in the expansion pack is just a fraction of Sheogorath's realm, and he decided to let you in and let oyu think you were a god, just drive you insane, because it entertained him...

Now that's something I hadn't thought of, I like it...

I like this one. It's entirely possible, and definitely Sheo's style.

Me too. I had thought of these possibilities before. People seem to forget that it's the Realm Of Madness, and the whole thing could just be an illusion planted in your head by Sheogorath. Also, being the Realm Of Madness, as mentioned before, your character could have gone insane. The player assumes that he/she is sane after the Isles, the only person to survive its trials, but this is based on what? It is highly likely that the character spent a few minutes in the Isles, returned to Cyrodiil, and strutted around thinking he/she was Lord Sheogorath. Perhaps this logic is flawed as you can return to Cyrodiil after the Shivering Isles, but still, it's a possibility...

Isn't that an "it was all a dream" copout?

But, it is all a dream... :shifty:

I see what you did thar

Don't be crazy, that's just mad. <_<

pfffHAHA. Dubble entendruh.

Really makes sense to me. It seems more absurd to me that a mortals interaction with sheogorath would go about so cleanly, without a ton of bat [censored] crazy stuff happening. Just the fact that you leave his realm all cheery and clear headed leads me to believe that it can't really be the case, just a mortals mind flicked around by a mad daedra for his own amusemant.

Its madness that madness should have a sane ruler :blink:, so what better way to prepare him than have him off chasing ghosts from pre-Dawn? I don't see it quite the same way as unholy, and it may be too clever, but I like it.

you know, with some of the other talk of Arden-Sul, do they ever AT ANY TIME, say, 100% he actually survived the Grey March? Say he did pass the trials, say he did assend, concidering you deal with nothing but insane NPCs that cant tell you a straight story if they tried, whose to say he did or did not fail and that he was slane by Jyg?

Also, on the topic of sane ruling the insane, etc, what if that is why Jyg never launches a second invasion, what if he wants the sane to rule it? The realm reflects the ruler, so would not that imply that if you were not insane, that you would, eventually start to convert the Isles, which may attract the attention of the other Princes, and give Jyg a way to both avoid their attention and reclaim what was his later?

I'm not well read up on my Shivering Isles sources, but that's the question. Its possible but not answered for certain. Arden Sul's death wouldn't matter, the curse would simply repeat the process, and since it was repeated we cant just assume Arden Sul became the last Sheogorath.

Jyggalag may be free of the curse, but he's doomed to wander the Oblivion, because there is no place for him or his realm. He may contest other realms, but they are not his thanks to the http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/before_the_ages_of_man.shtml. So what has been established by others is that, Lorkhan's "death" makes Sheogorath http://www.imperial-library.info/gods/elsweyr.shtml.

Hmmm. A revenant specter among Daedra. Floating through Oblivion, causing order wherever he goes. Where have I heard that one before? Isn't there a thread right now where we're talking about him?

Mankar Cameron? No, wait, which thread are you referring to? :confused:

The key was revenant and specter. I'm referring to Mannimarco (El Dios).

Only Jyggalag would now be a wayward moon, not one with an orbit.