A question regarding Tiber Septim : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:08 am

I have noticed a general trend on these forums to take the heretical point of view on his life as fact as opposed to the one commonly accepted throughout the Empire. Why is this? The majority of sources I can find seem to support the commonly held view. Is this just personal taste or some other reason?

I have another question, whatever interpretation you take Tiber Septim became Talos - the eigth devine. Now, generally you need to mantle a god in order to become one, so who would Septim have mantled? I would guess at Lorkhan or Akatosh but I am unsure.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:53 pm

He mantled Shor (Lorkhan is the devil elvish name!) to become Talos, the ninth divine. Before him, Shor was included, but was phased out, probably from too many elf bodies found in the streets.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:44 am

For your first question, can you give us an example?

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:48 am

Not specifically, but the majority of discussion on this board seems to take the ideas presented in The Arcturan Heresy as fact as opposed to the coomonly held view.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:27 pm

Read all of the relevant lore surrounding the Enantiomorph and you'll get a good idea of why everyone thinks the way they do. Do a search.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:04 am

Can you be more specific? There are a few ideas presented in the Arcturian Heresy.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:45 pm

Firstly, the his life. Things such as where he was born and that his great victories were not actually won by him. Some of these material is in other books, but I hope I've been specific enough.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:31 am

The Heresy offers an explanation for the two different birthplaces. The conflict comes the PGE and the Elderscrolls Calender.

The PGE claims that Tiber came from Atmora and had the Nordic Storm voice, the thu'um, though at the time noone had come from Atmora for a long time. Being helped by an ancient god of human conquest makes better sense here.

It also allows for him to take the place of Talos (Lorkhan) in the Imperial Phanteon through a process called manteling. Which is a more detailed (and thus better) explanation of how he became a god.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:29 am

Didn't he force Barenziah to have an abortion?

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:00 am

The Heresy offers an explanation for the two different birthplaces. The conflict comes the PGE and the Elderscrolls Calender.

The PGE claims that Tiber came from Atmora and had the Nordic Storm voice, the thu'um, though at the time noone had come from Atmora for a long time. Being helped by an ancient god of human conquest makes better sense here.

It also allows for him to take the place of Talos (Lorkhan) in the Imperial Phanteon through a process called manteling. Which is a more detailed (and thus better) explanation of how he became a god.

Yes, the mantling most definitely makes more sense. However, I'm quite uncomfortable with the idea of him originating in High Rock. I suppose thats the good thing about TES lore though, its really up to the individual how to interpret it.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:29 am

Why are you uncomfortable with the idea that Tiber came from Highrock and Ysmir from Atmora?

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:59 pm

Just because I'm so used to the traditional portrayal of his life. Nothing more than that.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:35 pm

It would be silly to accept the propaganda-ish official story with all this contradictory material against it.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:59 am

In order to mantle Lorkhan, Hjalti brought the sundered halves, the Men and Mer pantheons, together. Until Cuhlecain was assassinated and Hjalti had taken the throne, performing the role of the http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nazzarticle05.shtml, Tiber Septim never existed. That was his title which came with the throne, or Enantiomorph.

You may know [Enantiomorph] individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. The Oversoul was known to the world as Tiber Septim. They gave birth to their Mantella, this time an embodiment of the healing of the Man/Mer schism, and, with it, Anumidum Walked. -http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/skelm.shtml

This is just the story behind the god, like with the Tribunal; there's always a story.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:17 pm

I remember reading that when Cephorus I (might have been Cephorus II) became Emperor, High Rock got a little ancy because he was the first Nordic emperor, having never ruled one of the realms of the Breton homeland. Many of the heir-apparents were put in charge of Wayrest, and Andorak Septim came to rule Shornhelm when he was disinherited by the Elder Council. So it's safe to say Tiber Septim had at least some Breton blood in him. But due to the mythic-oddness of Nirn, he could easily have acquired Nordic blood and/or become fully Nordic by being Ysmir.

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:31 pm

Wow, I have a fair bit to learn about TES lore it seems. Thankyou for the replies. Ok so, Hjalti came to the throne by assasinating Cuhlecain, he handled the bureacracy whilst the Underking, posing as him won all the victories. Then he betrayed Zurin Arctus and activated Numidium and unified Tamriel. Is that correct? And how exactly did he achieve Apotheosis? All I know is that he mantled Lorkhan and that the Unkerking/Arctus were involved somhow.

EDIT: How does Ysmir come into this?

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:26 pm

Wow, I have a fair bit to learn about TES lore it seems. Thankyou for the replies. Ok so, Hjalti came to the throne by assasinating Cuhlecain, he handled the bureacracy whilst the Underking, posing as him won all the victories. Then he betrayed Zurin Arctus and activated Numidium and unified Tamriel. Is that correct? And how exactly did he achieve Apotheosis? All I know is that he mantled Lorkhan and that the Unkerking/Arctus were involved somhow.

EDIT: How does Ysmir come into this?

Ysmir, Dragon of the North, the Nordic aspect of Immortal Talos.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:24 am

Ah, I see. Makes sense. I think I get it now. Thankyou to everyone who's responded for your insight and patientce.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:16 am

The Apotheosis came with the Dragon Break, which occured with numidium's reactivation. Just don't ask for a time.

You're welcome. I'm still learning, and explaining helps me out allot, so its good for both of us :thumbsup:

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:27 pm

I think I finally have the full picture. Yay!

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:00 pm

The Apotheosis came with the Dragon Break, which occured with numidium's reactivation. Just don't ask for a time.

You're welcome. I'm still learning, and explaining helps me out allot, so its good for both of us :thumbsup:

That explains why Tiber refers to himself as "We" instead of "I".

» Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:31 pm

The Royal We. When Mara wrote it, he was just some dude.