well maybe you just have to learn to turn of the gun expert in you when you play.

My point is that I don't understand why some people put so much energy into trying to prove themselves correct about an opinion. Why go dig up Orwell? Why go dig up anything. What are you hoping to accomplish?
You've said you think it's wrong.. Good, that's your opinion. Others enjoy it. That's their opinion. I stated my opinion ... you chose to argue it. As I originally said.. It's easy to pick apart a game. I've done it on most games I've played. I've complained about things I don't like in this game in other threads. This isn't one of the things I find wrong with the game. To me it makes sense, is fun and works well.
I complained about Wild Wasteland being a perk and forcing us to have to play using that as a perk to see the funny.. I complained about magazines boosting stats and wearing off..... And I complained about Nuka Cola dehydrating you. I doubt any of those things will ruin my enjoyment of the game.. You seem to be intent on ruining the game for yourself...

it′s a trait, not a perk ;p

And it failed to offer on both of those fronts. If people want monotony and tedium from a game then I strongly suggest Desert Bus from Pen and Teller. The fact that the bus drags to the right a little is JUST LIKE being in a real vehicle! But, in reality, they added it in so you couldn't just start the game, play something good for 14 hours then go back to it to see your score.


Or they can offer the option to "turn off" the poorly designed mechanic.


Read from the start, man. Someone came on wondering if they where going to keep this bad idea around. Then someone replied that they (Bethesda), basically, spoke about how much of a critical design flaw it was to be forced to waste so many guns in F3 so they're implementing the repair kit feature. I came in and just piped up with "Why not take it 1 more step and remove it all together? Who needs to have your weapons degrade? It's pointless" then I ended up explaining the points of why it was a poor design decision and them adding in kits and allowing you to repair to 100, regardless, isn't really resolving the problem at hand. After the initial wave of reactionaries calmed down, people came up with some great ideas for the repair skill that would have been fun. Then the reactionaries came back with a few more reactionaries and we have what you see here.
We're not ruining it for ourselves. I'm still wondering this: If it's already realized by the company to be a bad design choice (as evidenced in using repair kits so you're not wasting guns), then why even add it to the game?
Magazines should not be wearing off. I've never bothered looking, myself, but they should be a permanent +1 to the related skill. They used to be more in the previous fallout games, but your skill also used to go to 2-300 in both games, so I can see why that was limited. The magazines also stopped providing bonuses after 95% in the previous 2, that's also not the case here.
As for why they exist? My only guess is that if you want to take that much effort in finding them then there's a reward for ya! It's also a slight bit more incentive to go into areas with them around, too.
The fun part about an opinion is that if I can argue it better then I win. Also: if we take this over to opinions of ethics and morality and the debates around the legalization of narcotics or those who want to lower the age of consent. Are they wrong for wanting those? I'd say so.

geez someone is easy to frustrate if you found the repair system in Fallout 3 tedius, I think I repair my gun 2-3 times during a several hour long gameplay session.

No, like I've mentioned before: I used the console repair feature. The annoyance was drastically lessened.

eh if anything using console commands proves even more your above average easy getting annoyed at things.

No, it means I'd rather not lessen my enjoyment of a game because of a bad design idea.
It'd be like if someone found a way to hack the game of Resident Evil and fix the horrible and unintuitive controller layout. The game would be a hell of a lot more fun, then.
I look it as "fixing the bad controller of Resident Evil".

P0x has his own reasons but I'm mostly here 'cause I smelled blood when someone tried to get all self righteous and defend this as realistic. Y'all are just my new chewtoy until I get bored now.

well there is a bit of a diffrence, RE controls where more limits of games at the time, the Repair mechanic was more added to purposely add to the difficulty. Not because a limit of the engine.

We have been over this. The repair mechanic does not test reflexes, judgement, situational awareness, system knowledge or anything else which would stand to make it a meaningful challenge in any way. It just tests our patience and pads gameplay hours. It does not have the right to call itself 'difficult.'

Don't forget that other games featured proper controller movements on the PSX.

well testing out patience is a challenge upon itself.

And game hours?...Frankly how sloppy where you with repairing your gear? To me it padded nothing.



yeah but they where built diffrently then RE, seriusly just stop...right now the only thing that comes out of this is painting yourself as a ego who thinks all games should be build to please you, not the majority. You made your opinion clear and your welcomed to state it, but it′s clear your in a minority so just leave your opnion as it is for now and if you feel like it pick it up when Fallout 4 forum pops up.

So testing gamer patience is a mechanic you support? Irritation and annoyances are something you look forward to in a game?

Well, that's usually the general consensus of the losing party when someone is able to properly defend their point. "It's just an opinion" "We are all entitled to one" "You sound like [insert whatever here]"
Like I have said earlier: A lot of this would die down if you guys admitted we are right and it is a horrible game mechanic.
To give us something common we can agree on, though. Would you agree, from my previous post, that Portal is an amazing game and that the physics puzzles where fun in it? I think we breezed past the common point of appreciation.

again, ego talking



that I don′t deny, can′t wait for 2

but still, isn′t it better to just end the debate on "agree to disagree"?

It was an ego post. It's one of my favorite lines to use when I'm looking for a quick laugh from the peanut gallery.



And Portal didn't feature the Portal gun losing quality. That thing had a bajillion moving parts inside and outside the casing! (Ok, that was cheap, I admit)

But then all this entertainment I've had while I've been trying to debug my Fallout games (1, 2 AND 3 are all crashing, but nothing else is...Not even TACTICS) would be lessened and we just cannot have that.
I will go one step forward: Ever play Castlevenia 2? It was a horrible game that is a guilty pleasure of mine. I'll admit it was a bad game, but I still enjoyed the crap outta it. Ninja Turtles, remember that game? Yeah, same thing. See where I'm going here?

The only way Fallout could possibly get better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBr7EhL6Jpg

I have one final thing to say in this thread:
Shut up about desert bus already! It's a straw man. Desert Bus is a satirical game, there is no real reward for playing it, no story, no action, no nothing, and that's THE WHOLE GAME.
The repair system is just a small part of a huge, exciting game and unlike the 8 hours of doing nothing you'd spend in desert bus to get one point, it takes maybe 2 seconds to repair your crap. I swear, if someone mentions desert bus again I will steal a bus and drive it into your living room.

But anyway, I'm seriously done here. I thought I was done before, and then I saw what I thought was a bit of civility on your parts (Smallpox and Baersark) but you're just so committed to hatred of this feature and condemnation of anyone who supports it... that I find you absolutely intolerable. Not that you don't have that right to be intolerable, before you accuse me of being tyrannical and dig up Orwell again, but I also have the right not to stick around.

I will now revert to my status of not giving a crap what you think, and reveling in your frustration as you are continuously trolled by the perceived monotony of the repair system. I hope the sound of clanging hammers and unraveling duct tape haunts your nightmares.

You are not, however, making a very salient case that those two seconds are actually contributing any story, action, or (any)thing to the game. See, you're misinterpreting the argument at hand, here: The point is not so much that the repair system is an atrocity in itself, it's that the repair system is a thing which did not need to happen and that the people who defend it this doggedly are kind of tools.

In that light, I actually think that Desert Bus and what it set out to prove are pretty informative, for the simple fact that people have been witnessed to actually play Desert Bus. When you think about that, it says a lot about at least certain humans' natures. It was a -deliberately- awful game and yet people still play it because they are told it is a 'game,' and to this end talk themselves into believing that the gameplay, which is intentionally engineered to be awful, is worth the gratification of getting to Reno and scoring a single point. People talk themselves into believing they enjoy stupid things because they are told to enjoy them, and I think it actually takes an extreme example like Desert Bus to properly illustrate such a phenomenon. Also, that it is absolutely at play when people support the repair system.

That's it, I'm revving up the natural gas engine on this metro liner. I've already killed the driver. There's a whole slew of passengers for me to feast on as my power goes and I evolve into my final form. Are you ready to feel immeasurable pain? Don't ask how I'll find you. I can feel you. I will be there in time to catch you, so don't try to escape.

BEWARE COWARD, I AM SINISTAR. I HUNGER!

Right. I have seen enough flamebaiting and team tagging by two members to call a halt on this topic. There is only so much repetition and circling around that a thread can take.