Hi Lorefolks.

I'm in the process of adding http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104 dinner-plate compatibility to tejon's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20850 mod (a survival-type mod which includes an eating component). Cobl makes it easy for modders to set up customized menus for different races, so I'd like to ship the mod with a bunch of settings to simulate lore-friendly racial dietary bonuses and restrictions. I can set restrictions (cannot eat) and preferences (more or less nutrition) for 5 different types of food: dairy, fruit, grain, meat, and vegetables. Also, I can allow/disallow raw meat in the meat group. Note that I can't separate out specific food items: there's no way to say, for example, that a race can eat all meat except venison.

So I'm assuming Imperials can be considered a baseline, ie they're basically like a real-world human (eat anything but raw meat, "normal" nutrition from all sources). I know wood elves are supposed to be strict carnivores (and cannibals to boot!), but what about the other races? Bretons, Nords, and Redguards are human, but perhaps they have cultural preferences - maybe Nords gain more nutrition from meats and less from fruits/veggies since they don't have a good climate for growing food and thus have to hunt more (meat gives extra nutrition, fruit and veggies give less); perhaps Bretons are taught not to eat other living things except in dire need (which I could simulate by having meat give very low nutrition). Do Orcs eat their meat raw? Do Argonians disdain dairy products? I know Khajiiti (is that the right pluralization?) like sweets - perhaps this could translate into a preference for baked goods and fruits?

Also, because the mod is Cobl-dependent, I'm supporting the Cobl races and by extension bg2408's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22124. If you're familiar with those extra races, some lore-inspired thoughts on them would be handy, too.

I know I could probably spend a bunch of time researching races and history and such at UESPWiki or the Imperial Library, but I actually haven't played very much (well, I've played a lot but haven't progressed very far ) so I don't want to spoil stuff for myself. And I figure there's a bunch of folks here in the forums with lots of lore knowledge, so I might as well ask here and save myself some time.

Any insight and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered over the years Orcs probably cook their food -- TES orcs aren't the stereotypical orcs of Lord of the Rings. Bretons probably eat similarly to the Imperials -- I've never heard of them being more vegetarian than usual. It's possible that Argonians enjoy hunting when they're able to, and are primarily carnivores, but I need the opinions of others on that. I doubt that they consume dairy products. Although Khajiits seem to like sweet things, since they're feline I assume they're carnivorous; but maybe this race in TES is omnivorous, I'm not sure. Redguards seem to be similar to Africans as well as people of the Middle East, so you could probably get ideas from the grains and so on of our world.

Good luck on your research, and I hope forumites more knowledgeable than I can post here.

The Bosmer are religiously carnivorous, and do not use plant products, at least in Valenwood.

Yes, they're only cannibals in that they're required to eat those they kill in battle. They're carnivorous in everyday life, but only cannibalistic when they've slain someone.

Argonians are resistant to poison, so I would imaging they have very strong stomachs. They could probably eat pretty much anything. Due to their resemblance to amphibious reptiles like crocodiles and alligators, one might also assume they like fish. Especially since they live in a land of many rivers, and in Morrowind were better than any other race at using spears (from spearing fish to eat in their homeland? Possibly.) Since they aren't mammals, I doubt they'd like dairy products.

Much of Daggerfall took place in the Breton homeland. There we saw lots of cows, so dairy and meat products are a given.

High Elves are from a tropical island, so they'll probably want something that grows in tropical enviroments, like coconut or pineapple. No bananas though, because that would be like cannabalism.

Imperials? Well, they probably just eat what food is in the game already, since the game takes place in their homeland.

Redguards have a very meritime culture, so seafood is probably on the menu. Also, watermelons for the lulz.

Nords love BEER! RAAAHHHH! AND MEAD! (seriously, though, in "Bloodmoon," a lot of them claim mead was invented by a god. So yah, give them an affinity for mead. There's also a book that mentions Skyrim having apple farms.)

The Dark Elves are a special case because, well, due to Morrowind, we know more about them than any other race. They enjoy kwama cuttle (bug meat), yams, eggs, and roots.

The Orcs look like carivors, judging by their teeth. I doubt they'd be able to chew a salad very well, so give them a love of meat and a distaste of plant products.

The Wood Elves are sworn to never eat or drink plant material, so their carnivorism should be even more extreme than that of the Orcs.

The Khajiits love sweet things. Give them candy, cake, fruit, and sweetmeats.

Based on my experiences in Oblivion, most meat is eaten raw (shoot a deer, loot it, eat the raw meat). http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Smoked_Baliwog_Leg.

Redguards probably eat camel meat, because we know that the very Arabic-inspired Hammerfell Redguards have camels from Daggerfall. Camels are useful for their meat, as well as being beasts of burden. Imperials eat a lot of rice. Rice is in the game already, but you could have some rice plantations along the Niben if you don't mind. Nords would eat beef and dairy a lot, because cows are important to them (they paint patterns on their cattle as offerings to giants). Bretons are definitely not vegetarians, they raise cattle and pigs.

Are the Summerset Isles really tropical? I always thought of them as being more Mediterranean, like Cyprus or Malta.

Also, the raw meat thing seems more game-mechanics than anything else.

They seem Mediterranean by TES: Arena, or at least the http://uesp.net/wiki/File:AR-Race-High_Elf_Female.jpg when rolling an Altmer character appears that way.

Just to clarify, I'm not adding new foods or farms or anything like that; Cobl itself adds a bunch of new foods, and coupled with Wrye Bash, Item Interchange, and a few food-adding mods, there's already a wealth of foods available. Also I can't tweak diets beyond basic food groups, like I mentioned in the OP. Unfortunately I can't do Kosher/Halal/Seafood-only type restrictions.

True - raw meat implies real barbarism, doesn't it?

Yeah, the Bretons = Buddhist thing was idle speculation with no basis in fact. Everyone sure picked up on it though!

Isn't there also something where they are supposed to eat their own dead before they rot, too? :yuck:

My reasoning exactly.

:lol:

Yep, but Cobl handles raw and cooked meats separately; in order to use a no-raw-meat mode, though, it's advisable to use some kind of crafting/cooking mod that lets you turn raw venison into venison steaks or whatever. That or buy pies and stuff from pubs, Salmo, etc.

Thanks for the thoughts, keep 'em coming!

I think Summerset Isle is more temperate (or at most subtropical) than tropical. "The Summerset Isle is a green and pleasant land of fertile farmlands, woodland parks, and ancient towers and manors." (Provinces of Tamriel)

Anyway, the High Elves exhibit the most extreme refinement in cultural matters, so you may expect them to do so in food and drink as well. Feed them venison, cucumber sandwiches, strawberries and cream.

And Khajiit are also fond of cheese :liplick:

It's odd that Khajiit would like sweet things, as real-life cats are obligate carnivores and can't actually sense 'sweet' - no interest in sugar whatsoever. Well, Khajiit aren't strictly cats, so I guess it doesn't really matter in the end...

Regarding High Elf diet: caviare, don't forget caviare. That's like the classic high-class food!

Funny you should say that. My cat has a sweet tooth and always has. She can't be bothered to get off the couch for meat, and is even getting lazy about fish, but she'll happily share with you whatever fruit you're eating. She gets a little piece of banana from my wife or myself almost daily, and she'll practically climb your leg for mango or mandarin orange... Well, not so much anymore - she's not as spry at 16 as she was at 8 - but she's pretty insistent nonetheless.

Talk to Weebum Nah in oblivion

Rat and deer, then.

Imperials: Default

Bretons: Default

Nords: Taste for alchohol

Redgaurds: Taste for seafood

High Elf: Taste for seafood

Wood Elf: Strictly meat

Dark Elf: Kwama eggs, rots, yams, insect meat

Orcs: Taste for meat

Argonians: Taste for meat, don't like dairy

Khajiit: Sweets

I'm sure they are all omnivores, barring the Bosmer.

A typical diet would be restricted to whatever food was available locally and/or imported.

For dishes from around Tamriel, read http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/red_kitchen_reader.shtml.

Other books of interest:
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/speacialfloraoftamriel.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/redorancookingsecrets.shtml

My dig with this, though is that you're simulating nutritious value based on race when most of this stuff is just cultural palettes. It might be more work, but it would be more interesting to have some means to ask the player where their character was born and raised, as that would influence their likes and dislikes. Remember, not every member of every race was born in their respective homelands. Now, if there IS a racial bias, like the Khajiiti sweet-tooth then I'd imagine to put that it. However, if you were born in Hammerfell, especially on the ocean, then you would've grown up eating a lot of seafood and you would like seafood. Additionally, if you were an Imperial who was raised in Valenwood, you'd be less attracted towards plant products as you would be towards meat because even if technically under the terms of the Green Pact you could eat plants, you'd grow up in a culture where such a thing would be an anathema.

It seems a little incongruous that you'd derive more nutrition from things you like. And it's true but players are more motivated to be attracted to whatever gives them the biggest benefit and so if you tweak the benefits based on loose racial predilections then you are having the players seek out foods that their characters would like and are achieving greater immersion for much less effort.

That being said, I'll contribute in this stereotyping contest: Argonians: less on the veggies, more on the meats
Orcs: I'd actually give penalties (or less of a buff) for simpler and 'uncivilized' foods like raw meats and basic staples like bread and greater rewards for more complicated foods like meats, cheeses, wine, etc. seeing as how Orcs are trying to get themselves accepted as a civilized race that are just like everyone else. See Lord Rugdumpf for inspiration.
Nords/Imperials: There's a very good reason why some very prominent nords in Oblivion talked about Cyrodilic spirits. Imperials are directly descended from Nords... sorta. I don't know how that might inform you, but I thought I should make sure you were aware of that.