I've installed the NVamp mod (what a ball acher to get everything together for it) and I've found that the Geckos regenerate health faster than I can deprive them of it. What aspect of the mod is doing this and how can I disable it to have their health reduce normally?

I'm doing the first mission (kill the geckos) and I haven't got a clue where Sunny Smiles has gone. Maybe she got her ass kicked by the Geckos like me.

Anyway, can anyone please help?

Edit: Found out it's the 'Hardened' mod. I'm going to have to remove it as it's taking the fun out of the game.

"Hardened" is the name of the mod that's regenerating the Geckos, and is currently required by NVamp..

EDIT; Just saw your EDIT, however, it looks like in a future release "Hardened" is going to be optional,
until then.....

I just unticked it in FOMM and it has got rid of it with no discernible side effects.

It upsets me that A ) you didn't give it half a try B ) You didn't know what you were getting into and C ) You couldn't pull off a few headshots.

But yes, gecko regeneration will be optional, along with a bunch of other things for those that don't enjoy difficulty.

Maybe they do like difficulty, but don't like it if presented in an immersion-breaking fashion?

I liked the concept, but after reading the thread about it and seeing the changes I decided I didn't want it. I prefer when the NPCs and PC are on equal footing, not when the NPCs get (what seems to me to be) magical advantages that the PC can never get.

A) I DID give it half a try.
B ) You're correct. I seek out realism but I'm sorry but I think geckos that regenerate quicker than you can hack at them with a melee reduce the fun factor. I don't want an EASY ride. But I DO want a FAIR RIDE.
C) I'm fine with headshots. But I have issues with the realism of incredibly quickly regenerating geckos. By 'realism', of course I mean realism within a gaming environment.
D) I'm very sorry that you do not appear to be able to take constructive criticism. My intention is not to upset but to give feedback both positive and negative.

What part of this was constructive?

And really, so many people talk about immersion, but what is that? Was it non-magical when your player character somehow pushed a bunch of adamantium into his skeleton? Was it non-magical when his gun somehow fired bullets that did more damage then it did before he took his non-magical fire ant nectar that made him better at shooting guns? Or the oft-overlooked magical advantage of a stimpak, hm, incredible regeneration hmmmm.

I really have no means to discuss things in an immersive setting, as the word is being thrown around so much in this setting and so few times is it defined. I made a more difficult mod, something this game was sorely lacking for those of us that enjoy a challenge. I really don't like that many don't enjoy some of the changes, so I'm adding mass options.

But really, if you want a 'FAIR' ride, or somewhere where the npcs and pcs are on equal footing, you should really look elsewhere in your game experience. Because the entirety of an rpg rests upon the cradle that there are inherent differences in strength between various actors in them. The challenge, and hopefully, enjoyment, comes from overcoming the (in)surmountable strength of your adversaries using your wits, and eventually surpassing them in terms of strength as well. At which point the game becomes dull, because you're the biggest on the block and you're smarter too. Which I, and the nVamp team are looking to address as well.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME.

You shouldn't take it so personally, he stated that it makes the game too hard for him, that's all.
Nothing bad about that.

To be fair, he said he was using nVamp, and currently "Hardened" AFAIK (unless there's been an update) is REQUIRED.
Now there are some of us (myself included) that want to try nVamp, due to it's "Module-like" nature,
however, I only use the "Overhauls" where EVERYTHING is optional.

However, what you are currently telling him, and others is, "Don't use nVamp because my Mod is currently required in it, so look elsewhere."

I'm not sure the nVamp team is going to be too receptive to you telling people not to use the mod that you have all worked so hard on. :shrug:

Currently for me, the requirement of Hardened being in nVamp, makes me avoid nVamp entirely,
it's nothing personal, it's because I like choices, and currently the only choice I have is to not use nVamp
until everything is made optional (if that's even possible).

With his last statement, he's saying that he feels the mod makes the game far too hard, and
for him, it takes the fun out of the game.
Granted, there are a LOT of people out there that love the kind of challenge Hardened provides,
but there's also us "Casual" players, who want to use Mods, especially fun-sounding Overhaul mods,
then find out, that some aspects of the overhaul mods are NOT optional.

XFO, is a good example of "Modular", albeit, it DOES have a ton of ESPs, however, you only use one or 2 from each section.
Advanced Recon Armor has options that cater to everybody, such as the option to use energy cells to power night vision, or
night vision doesn't cost energy cells at all.
You can choose the color of the nightvision etc.

So what did I say with all that rambling?

He wanted to try nVamp, and since currently Hardened is required by it, he didn't realize how much more difficult it makes the game,
so he's decided not to use it.

:disguise:

I simply don't enjoy this blanket 'immersion' thing being thrown around everywhere, pet peeve. He never says the game is too hard for him, he says it's 'immersion breaking'. I know it's too hard for him, that's one of the reasons I was initially upset. He didn't know what he was getting into. I'm addressing all of his concerns with my next endeavor, and I don't believe I invalidated any of them in any of my previous posts. But I did invalidate his reasoning. This game is not for him if he wants an even playing ground, I never said nVamp wasn't. People should be more forthcoming with their criticisms, say "It was too hard because X", not "It was immersion breaking". That's the point of my ramble.

edit: Thank you for the discourse.

"Immersion Breaking", it's a tiny pet peeve for me as well I guess, as it DOES get thrown around a lot,
(just like "Knee jerk Reaction" and "Slap in the Face" if you've ever been on an MMORPG forum :happy: )
mainly because unless there's a really really good story, I don't "get Immersed" by any game.

A few games that I've gotten "Immersed" in are definitely "System Shock 1" because of the atmosphere and story,
System Shock 2, at first I was immersed until it turned into a platformer like Super-Mario towards the end,
Mass Effect 1 & 2, all the Gothic Series, and Bioshock 1, (I didn't find Bioshock 2 interesting at all, and from what I've read about Bioshock 3,
I'm seriously doubting I'm even going to get that one.)

I guess nothing breaks "Immersion" for me anymore in all these new games, because I'm never Immersed in the first place,
and somewhat jaded anyway, because I've been gaming a long time, however, what I DO think is Immersion Breaking is "In Game Music"......

Which is why I always shut it off, to me having a soundtrack playing constantly, (Like in Oblivion) is
Immersion Breaking, and downright silly, (not to mention annoying after a couple of hours of the same
thing playing all over again) because just where is that music coming from?
You're walking around with an entire Symphony Orchestra playing wherever you go, and the music changes to the same tired
"Battle Music" which is a dead giveaway, so no Surprise Encounters.....It's not like a "Sword and Board" game is going to have iPods.....

I made a mini-game out of turning every radio off in FONV because I only hear 3 songs, and I'm sick to death of them,
only to find out, to my horror, that the casinos pipe the music in, so I had to shut off the music from the main menu.

I can only hear "Big Iron", "Ain't That a Kick in the Head?" and "Why don't you do right?" so many times before
I start to "hear the voices again" :laugh:

I used to do the same thing with music, it does kinda kill the mood. I reviewed 'immersion' on wikipedia and it gave me a better idea of what it really is, in a virtual environment, and it gave me a little insight into why everyone throws it around, at least when it comes to my mod. The first aspect of immersion is the effect the user has on the world, in my understanding most users that call my mod un-immersive are referring to the fact that they are used to effecting significant change in the game world. The strategies they used to effect this change and 'succeed', are diminished, they call the game stupid and uninstall the mod. I broke their immersion because of their previous training in the game world. Take a baseball bat to a gecko in nearly any modded game without hardened, it goes down like china town, take a baseball bat to a gecko in hardened, it don't go down so easy. Triggering a 'dammit, what do I have to do to kill it' moment, or a 'wtf gecko regeneration, that is unlike my previous experience, lame' moment or both, either way 'immersion' is broken due to their previous virtual training in the world they knew. They aren't as powerful as they used to be, and feel like the world isn't the way it should be, because in the world they knew, they were powerful.

However I aim to bring the power back, because it's already there imo, hardened isn't about making the game impossible, it's about making it more difficult. The only impossibility lies in that people don't know what they're getting into, how the game world has changed. Once you do, you can succeed and perfect the strategies necessary to succeed again and again. I.e. re-immerse yourself in different, more strategic world.

So I'm working on that.

The problem is people got sold on a "modular, more optional" mod design and then realize it's exactly the opposite. It's nothing like FOIP/FCOM. It's just a incompatibility nightmare of a mashup.

Sorry you feel that way, my responsibility is to hardened and VVV, I know Vaernus works hard getting it all to work together as well as possible. Once I feel comfortable with the strength and solidity of hardened standalone and VVV standalone, I will do my best to bring modularity to nVamp. In the sense of options galore.

To be honest it's a lot like FCOM, except FCOM only had a few mods that it brought together, while this is much more ambitious. It's more of an overhaul than a compatibility machine I will give you that. But again, in the long run man only hits what he aims at, and the ambition to bring together all these great mods in a fully functional manner, with the least amount of headaches, will one day be realized. I Gar On Tee.

Yeah good luck with that, then.

Didn't realize I was being defamed. I see no reason why you should be so rude. We're all working hard on our respective projects, Vaernus more than any of us tbh.

No need to be defensive. There's not a single mod on the entire nexus that every single person will want. You can't begrudge somebody for not wanting something unremovable in a mod pack. The entire idea of mods is tailoring your game.

lets all take a step back and a deep breath. there's too few of us on this forum as it is to be at each other's throats

immersive is a subjective word so i dont think it objectionable when its used. what's immersive for some may not be so for me and im not about to police the use of the word.

I've been wanting to try nVamp and hardened but am waiting till nvamp becomes more "finished" as it has still been changing its structure and composition. maybe on my next playthru. i have hardened downloaded but also havent tried it yet. i dont begrudge the new abilities poopoopapa has given to the creatures because the ai needs all the help it can get so i think their enhanced abilities can only level the playing field vs the player. though i must admit some of the changes seem to a bit too much of a deviation from lore. the deathclaw ability, for example, makes a lot of sense to me while the roach suicidal tendencies not as much.

"Realism" may be a bit of a misnomer when discussing Fallout (for somewhat obvious reasons). I tend to prefer "versimilitude," which is more like "internal self-consistency."



Well, it's more that-



-yeah, that. :blush2:

I mean, most criticism will be, by nature, subjective. Hard isn't any more of an objective measure than immersion-breaking is. People have different standards of immersion.

For example, here are mine. I look at New Vegas, especially compared to Fallout 3 and the first Fallout, and it's obviously a world on the way to recovery. There are several thriving towns, one extremely large settlement, caravans crossing the wastelands, army patrols, and so on. Making all of the creatures so much tougher makes me wonder how that occurred, unless the NCR army and local town militias are also sufficiently powerful enough to resist the new creatures destroying settlements (New Vegas is understandable because of the beefed-up securitrons). It turns the mood into more of a Fallout 3 style (or dungeons and dragons style), where there are settlements and then tracks of monster-infested wasteland in between that only brave heroes or caravans under extremely heavy guard can cross. Therefore, Hardened wouldn't create the mood that I like in my game. Other people might prefer this feel, or might not consider it important compared to the enjoyment they get out of combat difficulty, and that's fine, but the kind of mood a game sets is pretty important to me.

Well "Realism" in FO3 and FONV is kind of a far-fetched concept anyway, but not because of the setting,
but because you can empty a 9mm pistol point blank into a drug-addicts head, and all they do while you're reloading is
yell expletives and continue to beat on you with a pool cue.

Now, go to your local shooting range with a 9mm pistol and several watermelons and at point blank range, empty a clip
into one of the watermelons.......

Heck even the Movie Tombstone at least got that right when Doc Holliday gave Johnny Ringo a lobotomy with one bullet.

If the movie was Fallout 3 with Val Kilmer, Doc Holliday would've emptied his revolver into Ringo's head, and Ringo
would've killed Doc Holliday while Doc was busy reloading for attempt number 2.

Yeah, that was one of the main reasons I like FWE so much for Fallout 3. People (including the PC) die quite fast if shot in the head, and are overall not nearly as much of a bullet sponge as in the unmodded game.

WTF?

I'm sorry I spoke. Lighten up. I find it sufficiently difficult that for me , it removes the fun factor.

When I speak of realism, I DID emphasise that I meant realism WITHIN THE GAMING ENVIRONMENT. And of course, this statement is opinionated.

But the nature of these regenerating geckos and the pure numbers when you encounter them, makes pursuit of a mainly melee orientated character prohibitive.

I actively seek out ways of making games more difficult and realistic (within the boundaries of a gaming environment). In fact, in my opinion, food and drink SHOULD NOT heal and yet in the NVamp mod, it does.

For example, when I play Stalker, I install mods in which one bullet can kill. It's still fun because the player can peek around corners and pop off the shots. The player is given a fair chance to fight despite the numbers of opposition.

I suppose to summarise, we have to beg to differ on the subjects of what we define as being fun. In reality, being stuck in a post apocalytical world with very little resources to survive, WOULD NOT be fun. So realism should be applied within the perspective of a 'fun' gaming environment.

Again, I apologise for upsetting you. That was NOT the intention. I respect ALL of the modders who produce these fine pieces of work.

Apology accepted, sorry if I seemed to come off the handle.

The Majority of Tom Clancy games are like that, and always have me at the edge of my seat when playing (is that Immersion? maybe I've been defining it wrong.... :mellow: )
Anyway......in the games like Rainbow Six, if you're sneaking and you go around a corner and hear someone yelling at you in another language,
you're pretty much done, because then you hear the bullet, and the screen goes red and GAME OVER.

Even scarier when you find out the scenario has a sniper somewhere.....

Hmmm, I guess that's what I should look for, just a "Realistic Damage and Consequences" mod.

Or, has a mod like what I'm going to describe already been done?

I.E. I'm wearing a settlers outfit, I can expect to be one-shot, well, actually that would work the same for leather too,
basically it should be that way for all armor, until you get something like Combat Armor, because at least it has parts
on it to 'stop' or at least 'impede' bullets, and Power Armor shouldn't be the useless 40lbs of swiss cheese that it is.
My memory is hazy, but in FO 1 & 2 Power Armor was much coveted (at least by me anyway) because IIRC it was like Iron Man
in the middle of a bunch of guys with guns, I.E. bullets ricocheting everywhere.

Now Leather, and reinforced leather would help and possibly prevent gecko, dog, cazadore and scorpion stings/bites, or at least
lessen the damage of them.

I suppose that's what that entire DT and DR system is for? So someone would basically have to open the GECK,
change the damage of all the Bullets? or would it be guns?, then change the DT or DR to be 'more realistic' as to
what items and damage it's expected to stop/lessen.

But, does the game check to see if you've been hit (if you're wearing armor and no helmet) in the Armor, or the Unarmored Head?
(I suppose it does, because it knows which part to blow off of my character so she can lay there and watch her head roll around)
OK, so to re-ask that question.......Would my characters BODY that had Power armor, have a Different DR/DT rating, than
my characters bare, unarmored head?
Or would my character get one 'blanket' DT/DR applied to them?

and....."Captain Off-Topic" rides off into the sunset on his trusty steed 'Wut'......

I just want to hop in here and add that we really appreciate any criticism towards nVamp. Getting Hardened working better with the entire system has been a huge priority these past few weeks, and I know p00p00papa has been working his butt off on those changes as we speak on a daily basis on Skype. Once we complete this transition, VVV will become a complete standalone system requiring no masters (we have just finished a new spawn system and are beginning the steps to integrate into the game world).

From a modularity or compatibility standpoint, I do not see where we are failing on this part. We have split VVV, Effects, and hardcoe from the main system. The main system is, in and of itself, one module (all the master files are for organizational purposes and I would not classify them as separate modules as they, and the core mods, comprise the entire nVamp experience) that controls compatibility of the core mods (like FCOM). Not to mention we are handling compatibility for well over 100 mods built directly into the nVamp core that are meant to provide a new experience and greatly enhance the core mods. If we use FCOM as an example, it did not work with everything and the pages made no qualms of making that point known. FCOM itself was it's own super overhaul. While it expanded to add support for other mods (as we are doing with our recommended mods in a step by step basis), it was not meant to work with everything if you wanted the full experience.

I think most of the issues have stemmed from the large changes being a bit overwhelming for many people from Hardened (which again, is only part of VVV and not a requirement for standard nVamp). Once we can fully build this into nVamp and provide menu options to dictate how difficult you want your gameplay to be, these problems will be resolved. But, this is a beta and we do not masquerade as anything but that. I work around the clock responding on the forums and resolving any issues that come up when I can (while working a full time job and having a family). We've had multiple rebuilds of the entire system, and we are still in the process of finding the perfect mix to ensure this works before our v2.0 release.

To say that nVamp is an incompatible useless wreck at this stage is like saying that half built Porsche still in the factory is just a mass of metal and not fit to drive around in. We would hope that other authors in this community would have a little bit more respect towards other mod authors and projects since they go through it themselves in their own projects, and we have been doing our best to support the community the best we can both with this project, and working directly with many authors for compatibility or just throwing ideas around for their mods.

-V

-nm - comment moved to more appropriate thread