The lost legacy of ?Dunmereth?

Post » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:31 am

I've sort of been curious about the Dunmer since I came across http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/forum.shtml earlier, namely: why do the Dunmer use a name which, according to this, was a Nordic term:

First, the place was Velothi, a bunch of squabbling Chimeri and Dwemeri tribes.
Then, the Nords came, conquered, and named it 'Dunmereth.'
The Chimer and Dwemer finally got smart, joined up, kicked the Nords out, and created 'Resdayn.'
Then the Dwemer vanished, the Volcano erupted, the Tribunal showed up, everybody's skin changed, and things got _really weird_. Now the lovely place is called 'Morrowind.'


The term even seems to predate the metamorphosis of Chimer into Dunmer (I assume "Dunmereth" means "place of the dark folk," or perhaps more correctly, "[the] dark folks' land." Of course, this raises the question of why Nords are using merish words in the first place...). Thus, given the delightful relations between these two people, why would they willingly use a Nordic epithet as their identity (even if it is of merish origin)? Or was this more or less discarded as Morrowind became more developed (this does seem to be the only mention of it, which predates the release of Morrowind, and though it is by MK himself, it is in a fairly unofficial format and in a rather obscure location. The only thing keeping me from discarding it is that it isn't overwritten by any other origin story for the word, at least that I'm aware of, beyond the common-sense association of the word with the appearance of the people).

(if it was discarded, then hey, at least you learned a piece of useless trivia. Still, since the use of the word predates the existence of any dark-skinned mer, it seems to indicate that the "Dun" in Dunmer is indeed meant more in terms of personality than appearance. Or maybe the Nords meant "dark" as in "evil," which is fitting from a Nordic perspective, but nevertheless).
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Matthew Warren
 
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Post » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:45 pm

The Chimer had a khanate, called Resdayn. The Dunmer, upon the signing of the Armistice, called it Morrowind. The Nords called it Dunmereth, after the race that lived there, which was named in their own language based on the appearance given to them by Azura after the Battle of Red Mountain.

It isn't a Nordic name, it's a Nordic name based on a Dunmer one.
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rebecca moody
 
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Post » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:39 pm

Though it doesn't make sense, since the Dunmer weren't the Dunmer at that point. I think it ended up being retconned into Dwemereth.
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Emma Pennington
 
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Post » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:50 pm

The Chimer had a khanate, called Resdayn. The Dunmer, upon the signing of the Armistice, called it Morrowind. The Nords called it Dunmereth, after the race that lived there, which was named in their own language based on the appearance given to them by Azura after the Battle of Red Mountain.

It isn't a Nordic name, it's a Nordic name based on a Dunmer one.


But the point is that it is an anachronism. The Nords' usage of "Dunmereth" predates the First Council and the events at Red Mountain. There were no Dunmer at that time.
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Tiffany Carter
 
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Post » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:34 am

It could have been a reference to the personalities of the Dwemer...if Bethesda hadn't admitted it was an error ;)
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:21 pm

Looks like an ordinary retcon&mistake combination.

The Nords gave to the region the name of Dunmereth from being the land of the Dunmer; but in earlier ages it was called by themselves Resdayn; and Imperial Librarian Elba Laskee traces the foundation of the Dark Elven nation back to above 3,500 years from the present time. Morrowind was not given its modern name until after the first eruption of Vvardenfell (see Places of Note - Vvardenfell). - First PGE


In the PGE Morrowind was called Dunmereth before Red Mountains eruption. This was also before the Chimer were conceived as the ancestors of the Dunmer. With Morrowind the Chimer were invented as ancestors of the Dunmer. So Dunmereth could no longer be Dunmereth.

In the Morrowind teaser, MK reiterates what happened but uses the wrong name.

So it's easy to blame Dunmereth on the scholary error of some less causally inclined researchers, and assume that the correct term was Dwemereth.
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adame
 
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Post » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:28 pm

As a rule of thumb, however, things involving in-world language and translation are off-limits to examination unless it is clearly intended to have a point.
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Epul Kedah
 
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