If so, then you've chosen a pretty bad thread title...

The best evil characters are the ones that believe they're doing good. Not "Hey, there's a nuke in the middle of a town. Let's blow it up because I'm an a-hole. lololol"

I was using the word karma because it sums up what I'm trying to say, not because it was in Fallout

Nah, those are the most annoying, LOL. In any form of media, any time I come across a villian who "Is doing it for the good of his country" or whatever, I just want to either puke, or jump into the book/movie/game/whatever and STRANGLE HIM!!!!!!. Seriously, I just can't stand that kind of villian. I like the kind who are outright evil and enjoy causing pain and suffering. Not those who cause pain and suffering for "The good of all mankind". Blech

I'd like to have the option to be an ass. I'd also like a lot more gray moral choices in quests.

would you strangle dexter? hes the man! only kills killer and yeah i know a bit hypocritical but still u gotta love him

Guess you didn't really like Morrowind's villain, then. Dagoth Ur was allowing the blight and corprus to spread for the good of the Dunmer people, so that he could take Akhulukan and drive the Imperial invaders from Morrowind, when that pesky Nerevarine came and ruined his plans.

I really dislike villains that are evil-for-evil's-sake. It's so 1-dimensional, flat, and boring. Even Oblivion's main villain (Mankar Camoran) felt he was doing "good".. he was trying to reclaim the imortality and godhood that elvish beliefs say were wrongfully stripped from them by the trickster god Lorkhan with the creation of Mundus. In contrast, Mannimarco really fell flat by not having an in-game reason for attacking the Mages Guild.. he was just being evil because he wanted to be evil, so I never cared about his goals..I just needed to kill him to finish the guild quests. Bethesda really should have played up the "necromancers are being unfairly banished and are retaliating under a new leader, Mannimarco, who's himself fighting an centuries-old grudge against the Guild because of disagreements with its founder" angle, but instead it devolved into "we kicked evil necromancers out, and they're rallying under Mannimarco, and he's like, evil and stuff, and you need to kill him because he's, like, evil. He gets into our base and kills our dudes."

I like antagonists (villain is really the wrong word, here) that think they're doing good, or at least have a very good reason for what they're doing. There's two sides to every conflict. I'd like them to have a reason good enough to make some player characters possibly believe they're right, and join them. But if you're going to go that far, don't wimp out and disallow players from joining the other side.

That`s the thing that annoys me with most RPG`s, the lack of support for Anti Hero types!
Being a law abiding decent citizen in real life is all very well, but some of us enjoy letting that dark side out in our virtual gaming. I hate my Character being pushed into a Paladin type role..I`d rather be an Avenger :flame:
I hope there is some better system in Skyrim that caters for us nasty types..

Oblivion was just meh for being a badass, although i did enjoy leaving poisioned apples in various Inns and watching people collapse under their tables :woot:

Strangely enough, my characters always turn out to be Assassins.

I have a feeling that the MQ will force us to play the hero to some degree (based on what we know so far about the plot, I can't see how they could make a viable "bad guy" option, but I admit I'm not the most imaginative). However I'd love for there to be more SQs which allow us to play the antihero. I think the good thing about such a dramatic plot for the MQ means that you could work around it with an antihero character - they might not be doing it to save the world, just for their own self preservation; and their less than honourable motivations can be played out in the SQs.

Actually I meant the rulers could be evil. Serfs are the laborers.

First off sorry for hacking up your post like this, it's just for convenience, I agreed with everything you said.

Second, I think a true test of the Radient AI, would be if you were a petty rogue with a normal Infamy / karma / neutral alignment.
Never caught, but NPC thieves would have seen certain of your actions and the game keeps track of how many thefts or pockets picked you've made.
Then to have certain NPC's of a similar criminal bent, put two and two together...
Just for that area / town / city, so you get offered B&E's, rolling drunks, pick pockets and spying jobs in one city, but no other places recognise you as a criminal.
Then guards even though having no proof of your crimes, will react harsher to you and treat you more gruffly due to having suspicions about you.

If at some point in the future a game can offer this grey subtlety, I'd be very happy.

I would like to see it easier to kill people when guards arn't looking. In MW I could attack somone in the woods and never get a fine but in Oblivion you get a gold fine for striking somone or killing them even when no guards are around. Maybe if theres a karma system those "no witness assaults" could catch up to you later in the game.