Seti wrote me a long, heartfelt PM about a week ago asking me how I dealt with all the constant, unrelenting negativity on these forums and I advised him to take a break. I hope he''ll be back. He was one of the very few thoughtful, intelligent members we had.




When I first registered on these forums the constant negativity coming from Daggerfall fans was every bit as bad as the negativity Morrowind fans unleashed against Oblivion later. I had to take a break from these forums to get away from these people. "Morrowind isn't as good as Daggerfall because of this, Morrowind isn't as good as Daggerfall because of that." The aggressively negative attitude toward Morrowind was poisoning my love for Morrowind. The worst thing about games are the forums devoted to those games. I can't seem to stay away from them, though.





Over the years I have come to a few conclusions about people. It seems to me that the more ignorant a person is, the louder they become. As a person's ignorance rises, so does their need to insist that everything they say is true. And that everything you say is false. Ignorant people aren't interested in reasoned conversation. They're interested in winning. Their intention is not to debate in a civilized manner but to smack their 'opponent' down, to have the last word. It's a form of verbal PvP.

And frankly, listening to some of them complain about Oblivion I sometimes get the impression that too many of these people are just repeating things they've heard other people say. One person complains about "level scaling" and another person picks it up. Another person picks it up from them. After awhile people throw around the words "level scaling" without knowing what they're talking about.

Yo! I couldn't resist.

I'll be taking my leave, now.

i dont know why everybody is against the compas and quest log in ob it was such a great feature one of the things i hated in mw was getting a quest from somebody and instead of useably directions they give me some vage direction that could be half the dang map so i have to wander around for day looking just to do the quest until i just give up and go online and find a quest map thats not prging thats njust stupid

:mellow:

Think of it this way. I'm sending you on a quest to recover an item that was stolen from me by bandits. When they ran away from me, they dropped a note that mentioned they had a hideout near a waterfall. I know there's a waterfall nearby, because I can hear it at night. I've never been there though, so I dont know what's around it, such as a cave they could be using, nor do I know how far it is, but its kind of quiet, so its gonna be a bit of a walk to the west.

In Morrowind, you would get the general direction to go to the waterfall, and then look around, and explore, before you found the cave hidden behind the waterfall.
In Oblivion, you have a magic arrow, that would not only show you where it is, but how close you are. Never mind the fact that I didn't know where the waterfall was, let alone the cave. You may have been there already, but then you'd already know there was a cave behind the waterfall.

Yes, Morrowind's method was frustrating at times. But it was simply more immersive to people such as myself. Even the people who could tell you exactly how to get to the waterfall would be stuck giving vague directions, simply because there is no other way for them to direct you there. I'd rather have the characters tell me where to go, then the game.

I suppose the worst part about my feeling between morrowind and oblivion is that I am a console gamer I grew up playing mario and contra at my cousins in the mid 90's before gowing to grade school then ps1 was my thing playing twisted metal and vigilante 8, then I went to friends and played gta 3 that was completly new to me a world that big heck I remember seeing the morrowind review on toonami and goeing hmm interesting too bad I dont have xbox ah well then played halo at friends I tell you stepping off that drop pod sold xbox to me I couldn't resist after awhile of passing up morrowind I either rented a copy after passing it in the rental place or bought it my memory is fuzzy all I can say is walking off that boat wooo the freedom that new feeling I felt like...like...its like a euphoria like everything you thought you knew about fun and gaming freedom was a shame and for me morrowind was the closest thing to a miracle from a higher plane than any other game I've played it is partially because it was so new to me and partially because it was my first true roleplay niche I'd say without morrowind I wouldn't be the person I am today I probably wouldn't like the things I like heck I'd probably be one of those fps junkies angry all the time but morrowind saved me and I guess in my mind it'll always be best because everything I played before it was nothing in comparison it was for lack of a better term completly new nothing i had ever played before it could have even held a candle to the completely different everything it had.

Besides that I guess since morrowind was that new and fresh experience I soaked it up like a sponge or a newborn babe to the teet lol I couldnt stop wanting to learn everything it was great. Then oblivion came out and I expected nothing less than that I mean thats why I got the 360 the only reason was to play oblivion the next Elder scrolls for me sadly I soaked up so much in morrowind because it was such a new experience to me that oblivion couldnt compete for me I guess thats just how it is for me.

Lol I got the game guide for morrowind I literally used it so much theres food and drinks stains, worn to falling out pages, that back cover fel off its so used I could have expect to find it sitting in a dusty library section of some ancient tomb lol.

You just can compete with that kind of life changing event in ones life/gaming future I know I've played alot of games since morrowind. and as much as I crave that stepping off the boat joy I know with every game I play that euphoria will be less and less I just hope I will enjoy playing these games for a long time like decades lol.
So cheers to the elder scrolls touching and lighting the adventurers spark in all of us the one that once lit can never be extinguished. Lets hope skyrim can be the next generations morrowind or daggerfall or arena or oblivion. thank you all and thank you fate for nudging me to rent/buy morrowind its been the best period. :thumbsup:

the worst thing i ever had to do in mw was the great house quest that all the house's have that make you find some camp thats under attack by a rival house i think it was called not business but duty where you have to rescue your house brothers from a rival house attack at odrirniran if i didnt look at a online map i would have never found that place and heres the kicker once you do find the damn place it still wont be placed on your map yay if you wanna make me work a little fine but give me a clear landmark or something (yea the bandits camp is near the the southern base of blue mountain near the big oak tree) dont just say yeathe camp is somewhere in the west good luck if your gonna do that just let me buy a map of an area. Dont get me wrong i loved exploring in mw and i played mw before ob but when im in the mood to do quest i dont want to wander around for hours because of crappy directions.

Oblivion is a good game, if you start with Elder Scrolls genre with it, as compared to other open world games out there it is really good, but if you had tasted the unique experience of previous games, you would be disillusioned about quite a few aspects of the game.

The previous games were harder games to get into, but if you could crack their hard surface, and can get past the old graphics, (compared to the current games), you would find a gem of a game, with unique game-play, and rich culture, and satisfying reward for conquering satisfying challenges, that would engulf you, and keep you engaged for quite a while.

Oblivion compared to the previous games had lost a lot of those aspects and had became an action packed instantly gratifying shallow game that did not have the depth of the previous games.

I do not want to compare those aspects separately now, as others are doing a nice job, but I might decide to do later.

Ya know, all other issues aside that some of us have with oblivion(and for some of us(including me) thats a good many), I think this may be the one true dividing line between pre-Oblivion TES Players and post-Oblivion TES players. Before Oblivion, you would never ever think to call a TES game a "generic Action-RPG" Game. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, with all their faults and issues(and even though it's my favorite, I'll be the first to say, Daggerfall had some serious bugs), could never be described as anything BUT an Immersive, open world RPG that delivered tons of story and content and an almost unlimited amount of choice. Then came Oblivion, which was officially the first time that Bethesda tried to cater towards more then their usual crowd. And it was a roaring success. It drew in Hundreds of thousands of players who had never set foot in Tamriel, hell, for many it was likely their first open-world RPG game, and for that crowd, it was great. Truly and utterly awesome, ground-breaking, awe-inspiring, breath-taking even. But for those of us who have been around since the beginning, it honestly felt like a bit of a slap in the face. It is us who supported the series when it wasn't popular, hell, when gaming itself wasn't considered popular. So when we opened up Oblivion, installed it(or popped it into a console for those who are PC deprived), and started our adventure, we were sorely disappointed. Choices gone, Immersion broken, Lore toned down. Those who came before Oblivion honestly feel like we were betrayed on some level in order to garner more fans for the series.

Now, I myself still liked Oblivion, as I have stated in a previous post in this thread(and many other posts in many other threads), and if Bethesda can return to some of their roots in Skyrim, all will be forgiven, a small mis-step in the great history of TES games. If not...well, I guess we'll just be dis-gruntled fans who will no longer support the series(please note, I'm not presuming to speak for everyone in this opinion, mostly myself, and maybe some others).

Anyways, I think that is why there are always so many fights and arguments between Pre and Post Oblivion TES Players. I'm not saying it's right(just trying to maybe shed some light on why so many flaming arguments occur), and I don't approve, nor support those of us Pre-Oblivion TESsers who flame and call oblivion a pile of unplayable garbage, but I can see where they come from on some level.

Yeah if you let a caveman read JK rowling he would say it's better than shakespeare too.

All I see is you confusing "better" with "more accessible" but even if you are right, you wouldn't have a thing to prove your "primitive sense" is more relevant than our "bias opinion". You can say a game is strictly superior to another of the same kind if all it (or a overwhelming majority of the important points with the less important ones not screwed) is better. That's not the case for oblivion.

If I would resume most of oblivion problem, I would say that the strength of oblivion are directly opposed to what make the open rpg interesting compared to the "normal" ones. In the contrary, what oblivion made better than morrowind was the less important points of the kind. That's why people keeps telling it's a good game but not a good TES.

Turdlivion is supposed to be an RPG and everyone likes it except RPGers .As a game for everyone else it is good without a question , as a role playing game it is beyond crap.
I think the fact that devs sold the game for something that it isn't made many of us very angry.

Best game ever in my opinion.

Please do. Copy/Paste?

Speak for yourself. I'm a dedicated, hardcoe roleplayer and I happen to like Oblivion. Roleplaying is in the mind, not in the game.

But thanks for providing an illustration of my third point in my previous post. I appreciate it.

the simple fact is I love Elder scrolls I've played morrowind and oblivion so much both there disc's went bad from so much use the difference though is that I've bought 3 copies of morrowind goty and apparently the one I thought was broke still works which is great but for oblivion I only ever felt like buying the one copy after it broke well I just borrow it from a friend otherwise I just dont play I am strictly a console gamer so PC is out of the question so Im stuck with what beth releases dlcwise and lets say some oblivion dlc wasnt perfect I know that battlehorn and Shivering isles both had at least one item each which was leveled to when you load the dlc not go to it not set foot there but the instant you get the quest...So making a new char gives you a level one version because you were level one in the sewers when you got the quest it was annoying having to delete and redownload dlc just to get a better item.

I sorta hate pc gamers because while we get what we get for console you guys get what you want or you make what you want or whatever you know so am I jealous heck yeah do I drool seeing some of the mods you guys get...yeah do I have a valid reason for thinking you got it somewhat better than console players? yeah at least you can fix stuff beth misses once beth stops patching for say oblivion though there went my hopes for them patching that dlc.

Oh lets hope skyrim has a great collecters edition with awesome stuff in it lol.

Roleplay in video games requires specific game mechanics, in Turdlivion those are completely absent .


Are you also LARPing adoring fan?

Like what?

You act like you understand, but the role-playing you speak of, and the role-playing he speaks of are very different. Walking around in Oblivion eating and pretending to be actually in the world is in the mind, but game mechanics that follow an RPG mindset are part of the different definition of role-playing. It's like comparing LARP-ing to table top role-playing.

Most Oblivion fans do not understand this crucial difference apparently.

I would like you to explain how Oblivion wasn't a RPG. Well, I supposse that now you are the one who defines what a RPG is...

:stare: This thread was doing okay for a while, but... some of you just cannot help yourselves and have to end up making personal attacks in supporting your position. And that gets threads locked. Who cares what game you like best and why - learn to state your opinion without sneering at those whose opinions are not necessarily in agreement with you.


This is a breathtakingly specious argument. Do not dismiss other people's opinions in such a manner - it's not only arrogant and rude, it's borderline flaming. And it is a good illustration, as are some other posts in this thread, as to why these threads end up locked.

Lastly, to several of you who kept going "Wah, why is this thread in the skyrim sections" - Use the report button and request a move if you think a thread is in the wrong place. Don't boost your post count by making repeated posts saying "Why is this thread even here."

Cranky moderator cat is very cranky and will be reviewing some of the posts in this thread - some of you may hear from me.