Label me a troll if you like, but I'm not so biased to the point where I kiss beth's ass. Sorry but I don't agree that they are the "best at RPGs". I, however appreciate that they continue to contribute to a increasingly dying genre where so many other companies that used to make many RPGs, including SE are deviating from it.

roflolmaomg

I wouldn't know about that. I think crafting a linear game with a complex storyline with several diverging paths and well fleshed out characters is much more difficult than copy-pasting a few dungeons in a computer generated forest.

That is completely true for Oblivion and Fallout 3. A huge portion of the world in those games was computer-generated. However, making Morrowind was a true feat of world-making. I'm not entirely sure, but I think not a single part of the world in Morrowind was generated by a computer. I am not sure about that but Bethesda made a huge deal of how they used computers to generate the landscape and the forests in Oblivion so I presume that was such a huge selling point to them because that wasn't the case for Morrowind.

That's completely right, and one of the big reasons why Morrowind is such an amazing game and Oblivion is not.

Even if Fable games don't always live up to Molyneux's hype, they push the boundaries of gaming far more than Bethesda games. The Fable series has some of the best comedy writing I've ever seen, and that includes TV and Movies, they have some genuine emotional moments (I cared more about the chicken at the beginning of Fable 3 than I did about Dad in Fallout 3), they're pushing gameplay innovations like evolving weapons, etc. The Fable games might not be better than Bethesda's, but they definitely innovate more, and that's what the games industry needs.

Bethesda makes open world games better than most other companies, I wouldn't dare state something specific as 'best RPGs' because there's way too much good competition for that.

I don't know what they gave him the achievement award for, but if it relates to his games I'd imagine it's not because of the Fable series, for the record Peter also made Black and White, and RPG maker, and another game series I can't remember right now, but I know Black and White was absolutely revolutionary for its time It's because of B&W that he's even publically known.

and as others have said, while Fable isn't the greatest game from a gamers perspective, from a designer and developer perspective it's remarkable. Peter did always try to innovate even if that came with stodgy results.

I think BGS deserves an award as well, and I hope they do get recognition, but I'm not angry at Peter nor do I feel his award is unwarranted.

Molyneux is the one who hypes all games like they will be the BEST GAME EVER! And none ever were (or even close for that matter...).

I also disagree that OB and FO3 did not live up to the hype...there's a reason they're usually mentioned in Greatest Games of All Time tops, and many times (most I've seen) both ahead of MW.

Bethesda are IMO the best company out there. So IMO way ahead of Molyneux

EDIT: just found http://www.anaitgames.com/wp-content/2008/09/2008-9-1_peter_molyneux.jpg

This I do agree. Molyneux is indeed of the original game devs that invented or atleast revolutionized a genre. However I don't get why he's getting an award now when none of his recent games were jaw dropping amazing and memorable. Unlike Beth's :shrug:

I've never been impressed with Todd Howard. I think he's pretty arrogant :shrug:

Bethesda as a whole though I do like their games for what they are. If they had better writing/dialogue and such then then I'd hold them in much higher esteem than I do now. Overall though I do enjoy their games (except the abomination that is Fallout 3) and what they offer (which is an open world where I can essentially do pretty much anything I want, though that's somewhat limited to just if I want to kill someone I can, and be whoever I want).

As far as "best in rpg" I'd say in the ranks I'd give them maybe a B or a C compared to other developers.

While Oblivion did not live up to its hype (which would have been impossible in any case, given Oblivion's hype ), I think Fallout 3 far exceeded it. This may be because I never played Fallout 1 or 2 (until after I had played Fallout 3, anyway), and so had nothing to compare it against, but either way, Fallout 3 was amazing.

Critical appraisal doesn't mean that much. If you really think that Oblivion did live up to the hype then you simply didn't experience the hype properly.

None of Beth's recent games were jaw dropping amazing and memorable either.

True.

Morrowind was not jaw-dropping amazing, either, which was where its charm came from, I think. It was weird and alien, and hostile (for some reason, the first time I played it, the mating kagouti were in the swamps directly outside Seyda Neen, and I got repeatedly [censored] by them ), but drew you in with its subtle and intriguing details. I really don't think that that is a quality that Bethesda's games have lost.

If critical appraisal doesn't matter, Molyneux getting an award doesn't matter either :shrug: I do understand why some people say OB did not live up to it's hype but IMO it did, sure it lost some of the originally promised features but it's still IMO the best game of all time :tes:



I completely disagree :shrug: OB and FO3 do qualify IMO as jaw dropping amazing and memorable and if you count MW in (I mean it's only...8 or 9 years old, which although being some time is not thaaaat much) it also fits in, which is why it's many of the forums members favourite game.

For me that was what made it jaw-dropping amazing, though getting [censored] by a cliffracer for the first time wasn't fun.


With 'recent games' I was referring to Oblivion and Fallout 3, in my opinion Morrowind is leagues and leagues beyond those two. It's one of my favourite games as well. Now Oblivion and Fallout 3 aren't absolutely-vomit inducing-Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing-like terrible. They're very decent games still. Good but not great, and definitely not worthy of the praise they often get.

Molyneux has been successful in a few genres, but in the case of Fable he didn't really do anything impressive at all. While I don't think Beth is the best game developer, I don't think there are any other companies who make totally sandbox RPGs anymore.


I don't really like Obsidian. They mainly take established franchises and make sequels, which I don't think live up to the original games. Plus I didn't enjoy their shot at an original IP either (Alpha Protocol).

The only competition that BGS has RPG wise is Bioware but Bio isn't anywhere near BGS's league. You can thank the wonderful folks at EA for that :biggrin:

I disagree with that. For me DA2 was a much better game than both Oblivion and FO3 (and not to mention previous BioWare's games).

That's complete crap, Edios Montreal and Bioware are easily better than Bethesda, Obsidian, and even Interplay.

What determines whether one game is better than another for you is how much it lives up to what you want in a game!

Morrowind and Fallout 3 are what would happen if I handed Todd a personal wishlist and put "oh just surprise me" after getting past a dozen requests or so. Oblivion is what would happen if he saw my requests but didn't quite get what I was getting at. Shivering Isles is him coming back and saying "Oh, you mean like this?" (Yes, Todd - exactly like that.)

As for Bioware, Mass Effect 2 is that team saying "hey, we saw your wishlist and this is what we made - this is what you wanted, right?"

... to which I'd say "yeees, but I slightly prefer what Todd's team did. Not that I don't love your game so much that I want to cover it in kisses and write poetry about it, but they ... well, they have mushroom trees".

I didn't even make it through Dragon Age 2's demo. I did complete Dragon Age, but it wasn't really "my sort of game", so it didn't matter how good it was at doing what it did, it would never really please me.

Though it might have come across as hyperbolic or an obstinate really devoted fan I really don't see much worth playing around.

Recently I have tried hunting around for a good RPG and found few worth of the genre; Divinity 2, The Witcher, the Fable series, Two Worlds, Gothic, Dragonage all fluff dressed-up as an RPG. I don't even understand why games like Final Fantasy of the "JRPG" genre (shudders), or Diablo are considered RPG's, since you play the same character/campaign over and over again. I remember the first time I played Diablo, waiting to get out of the Dungeon and explore towns, taverns, dealing with the locals. I waited. I waited more. It never happened and I binned the game.

The only game I like playing which somewhat resembles my idea of a Role-Player is Drakensang, which features traditional elements and an immersing world. This genre recently ends up looking more like "Mortal Kombat" than a slow-paced, wonder-world where exploration and character-development is more important than "SPECIAAAL MOOVEE."

In the traditional sense and definition, a Role-Playing game relies on player-ingenuity, new situations created on the spur of the moment, character development, elements of causality. This is still impossible on a computer and, hence, an RPG can only really limitedly exist in a Multi-player environment - to a very small extent since it is still limited to the game's engine, the limited character-options/races/items and so on. Bethesda have come close to furthering the RPG idea with their games, though not by any means in a flawless execution. I think most players instantly think "RPG" is any game which employs a point-buy system, skills and point-attribution.

Bear in mind that, originally, Role-Playing board games were played with dice, pen and paper. I can't imagine many of the younger video-gaming generations being involved in something like that. I am not expecting a computer game to be as slow-paced as that, after all it might be too boring, but I wouldn't label a heavily action-oriented game an RPG either. A combat-encounter is something to be valued.

Wow...I guess no other word than "really devoted fan" is acceptable...