Elder Scrolls Dungeons

Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:37 pm

I stumbled upon tvtropes.org and found some comments on the ruins of video games. I read the comments on Elder Scrolls ruins and I just could not stop laughing. So I decided to share it.
Here is the link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinsForRuinsSake

Here's the material directly

The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall had a lot of randomly generated dungeons to visit. You could go to the ruins of some farmstead, enter a cellar door and find yourself in some absurdly extensive cavern/dungeon complex. In fact, most dungeons were more complex than the majority of regular buildings, and this was never justified in-game.

TES: Oblivion offers a partial aversion, with a few dungeons and supposed prisons actually containing the expected cells. Other than that, it generally falls into this.
Often, the ruins are referred to as abandoned elvish cities, despite being unnecessarily mazelike, full of traps, etc. No wonder the elves aren't ruling anymore.
They're the catacombs of the abandoned cities - there's generally the remains of some suitably monumental building sat on top of them which was probably the Ayelid temple.
Also, the Imperial Legion has seen fit to allow every fort in the province to fall into disrepair and serve as shelter for all manner of monsters and villains. Some of these forts are built dangerously close to major roads, including one built directly on top of the road now infested with goblins. In addition there isn't a single working mine in the province, they're all described as "deserted", "forgotten" or "haunted". All Aleyid cities only ever make sense if you take 'city' to mean 'necropolis', because burying people and treasures is all they do. They also suffer from Blatant Item Placement in that you find 3rd Era currency in a 1st Era ruin. It makes sense when you realize that, since the ruined forts, abandoned mines, and Ayleid cities are currently being occupied by bandits, rogue mages, necromancers, etc., they'd bring whatever (modern) money and other goods they have with them and stash them there.

TES: Morrowind has lots and lots of ruins. Most of them seem to have some purpose behind them. The Dunmer Stronghold ruins were used as outpost during wars. The Dwemer Citidels were homes/factories/science labs to Dwarves and the Daedric Ruins are relics from the time that the Dunmer worshipped Daedra(and are usually filled with angry Daedric Minions and daedra worshipers).


So true. :rofl:
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Amber Ably
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:26 pm

Those points are indeed true, though honestly, I think it's not unique to the Elder Scrolls. In a lot of RPGs, it seems that when the designers create dungeons, they're more concerned with providing a place for players to explore than making its design actually make sense. And while I do understand this since it is a game and the designers naturally want it to be entertaining, I prefer my dungeons when they try to make sense, while still being interesting to explore myself, especially since the feeling that the place was actually built for a reason beyond being a place for adventurers to fight monsters can help to make it more interesting to explore as well.
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Naomi Lastname
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:43 pm

It is true BUT not that funny :shrug:
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Daddy Cool!
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:46 pm

<...> I prefer my dungeons when they try to make sense, while still being interesting to explore myself, especially since the feeling that the place was actually built for a reason beyond being a place for adventurers to fight monsters can help to make it more interesting to explore as well.

Indeed, I play Morrowind right now and I realised that I totally ignore Deadric Shrine because, for this gameplay at least, they don't interest me. When I play a thief I go to Dwemer Ruins more because I know I'm gonna find gems, etc. When all dungeons are the same for no particular reason, the replay value is lessen, imo.
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Eve Booker
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:13 pm

I like how they attempt to poke fun at Daggerfall and Oblivion but then say nothing about Morrowind.

The Ayleid Ruins make perfect sense, for the most part. As it said, they're the catacombs of the city, not the city itself. The city is the top part, which has been destroyed over one or two thousand years, and all that's left is, conveniently, the door to the crypts. The traps were added later to keep out Alessia and her army when she went around wiping them out.
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Lou
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 pm

Of course games are not all meant to be 100% realistic. Although Morrowind did have working mines, I'm pretty sure you could imagine within the miles per step you make in Cyrodiil (figuratively speaking) that there would be some mines that are actually being worked in.

How big is Cyrodiil when put to scale? 3000 square miles give or take? I can see why Bethesda, when shrinking it down to 16 miles, would choose to put more dungeons than economic locations. You just have imagine that a "town" like Aleswell is bigger than 2 houses and and Inn.

I do find it absurd however, that when entering a cellar in Daggerfall would lead to some giant complex maze. But I still love that game.
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Aliish Sheldonn
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:19 pm

Dungeon crawling and exploring rules.
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Hope Greenhaw
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:53 pm

It puts down Daggerfall's and Oblivion's, yet praises Morrowind's? They weren't varied or realistic, either. Dwemer ruins only ever felt like factories, not abandoned settlements.
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:28 am

shrinking it down to 16 miles

It's more like slightly over eight miles, actually.




They weren't varied or realistic, either.

I agree. Although, in general, I though dungeons were handled a bit better in Morrowind, many of them were placed in locations that didn't make a lot of sense to me. They were presumably intended to represent places that had once been fairly frequently visited. But there were no roads servicing some of these places and they were in out-of-the-way locations that made sense as "dungeon locations" but not as realistically-placed shrines or ruins.

In my opinion Daedric Shrines, Dwemer Strongholds and Ancestral Tombs in particular are not any more interesting than the average dungeon in Oblivion. I have a fondness for Dwemer Ruins but, objectively speaking, they're probably not any great shakes either.

Because the Dwemer and Ayleid civilizations have vanished and few records documenting their cultures remain, we do not know with any certainty how these places were used. I'm inclined to agree with Velorien: underground areas of Ayleid ruins were very likely used mainly as catacombs.
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GEo LIme
 
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