But... we don't HAVE an I win button.

Honestly... I agree here, and am ashamed to have been a part of it. The potshot at the forum as a whole was unnecessary though.

First, I must say that I agree with Corepc - but that point has been driven home several times by now so I'll leave it at that. It's really Mod Ethics 101 anyway, so not much to discuss. So - if permissions etc. are sorted out:



I haven't read through the entire PDF yet, but this seems awesome in many ways - I agree with almost all features/changes I saw. In fact, I sort of nodded yes to much of everything (as Realistic Fatigue being one of the most important mods made for the game). In short, I hope this will be sorted out as the overhaul in itself seems to be excellent.

Reading through the PDF now and I have to say, I'm extremely impressed. If the permission and dependency issues can get sorted out this will be one of those "landmark" mods.

While i do agree that the concerns mentioned are legitimate, i think it's a bit sad that this thread turned into a flame fest. I really think the problems can be sorted out by just adding a little to the read me and sorting out little stuff like esm/esp names. The creator seems like a really valuable addition to the modding community and i hope it doesn't get too much "bad press" just because certain aspects might need better clarification in read me to avoid problems that might arise.

He certainly does not try to hide the fact that this is a modified version of ooo and other mods. So there is no ill intent.

I really think the offended parties should take this up in a more private matter and see if it can't be sorted out. Because the mod itself seems like a good one.

This is starting to sound very Machiavellian...

If I may just add something...

I've played Oblivion for years. I'm more of a player than a modder, even though I've done one or two for my personal uses.But I haven't played in one year or so, and I d like to start a fresh new game without needing to think 20 hours about which mod I m going to use, if X is compatibly with Y, do I have to wait for the next version of W to be released, etc.. etc..

And I'm totally going to take a look at ROM's work because I think it looks interesting.

I would just like to point out that it is sometimes nice to have a neatly, well done, "work without hassle" package, because it allows users who don't necessarily have the time or motivation to deal with the numerous compatibility questions that are raised by mods to still have fun and enjoy a bug free, feature packed game experience.

And if someone takes the time to select mods that complement well each other and that take care of the biggest issues of Oblivion, well I d like to say "thanks" to that person.

That was just my two cents.

Now, I m off to play this mod.

ps : this is not meant as a criticism towards the work of modders, who have my respect

Perhaps this thread should be closed, because I don't think the mod should even be up as it is - and certainly not used by the discerning members here.

I appreciate this suggestion and the reasons stated for it. I agree whole-heartedly.

Agreed that the mod should be withdrawn as it currently stands.
I think Underground should be allowed to respond.
My thoughts are his intentions are all good, even if lacking somewhat in modding etiquette, perhaps through ignorance of normal procedures.
Let's not jump the gun, stop the bickering and see what he may have to say.

I'd say, to summorise for the OP, these are the steps that should probably be taken:

-First, remove the mod in its current state to prepare for a re-release and avoid this controversy.
-Next, use TESGecko or something similar to turn your mod from OOO with bells and whistles into an addon for OOO, and rename it suitably.
-Ask permission from all the people who you bundled their mods in.
-If you get persmission from all these people, re-release your mod with full credits. Else, you're going to have to have a rethink.

I'm just trying to summarise this discussion for the OP in a way that will cause the least problems, because really it looks like a pretty decent mod that's had a lot of effort gone into it. I just think it's a shame that the wrong steps were taken to release it.

As this seems to have been misunderstood or perhaps not understood judging by PM:s, I'll add my replies to make it more clear - even if I think it's rather self-evident. Also, I agree with Shikishima and take back the thread close "threat":

I concur. I think we all can gain benefit from it and The Greatness conclusions are reasonable.

I may have come off a little harsh. But I will stand by actions. Has TEAM Manager of OOO once again.

Underground and Me can talk about everything via PM

no need to bring up what has already been talked about.

I can give him his options on what to do and we can proceed from there.

He also need to get permission from the Other Mod Authors has well.

That is all that I have to say

I find the manner in which the attitudes and accusations have been made to the OP absolutely shameful - so much so that I am forced to comment.

One thing I have detested all my life is bullying - and here is a prime example of the chosen few ganging up on someone who has "broken the rules".

Only after he's been beaten to a pulp do people suddenly wake up to the fact that maybe he's got something after all - a bit late now.

I doubt we'll ever see him again around these mean streets.

And why has this happened? It's the one aspect of the modding scene which I have always thought contrary to the spirit of modding.

"I give you this mod for free, no charge, but do not share/alter it in any way without my permission, and make sure you name me in the credits."

To ask this is fair enough, but to demand it is not in keeping with the free sharing philosophy of modding and the net in general.

The fact of the matter is, once it is out there, it no longer belongs to the modder - it belongs to everyone, just like open source operating systems or freeware.

If modders do not agree with this, they should either; not distribute their mods at all, or should copywrite them and subsequently charge for them.

What they should not do is stifle other people's creativity/contribution to the scene because they feel their integrity has somehow been compromised.

Quite frankly this is all about egos and I am very disappointed that grown advlts can still be so petty-minded, mean and vindictive.

That's all I have to say.

OK, if you can sort this out away from the forum it would be best. Thanks.