Or, as Lord Rugdumph gro-Shurgak would say, a phallic victory.

If he needed, Tiber Septim could have waited for Hammerfell to calm down.

It would have been bloody no matter what, but the Telvanni would not add or take away Morrowinds chances. Morrowind could have put up a good defense without the Telvanni, and even had they joined Telvanni wouldn't have been what 'gave them a chance', magick doesn't win wars, there has to be tactics to back everything up.

This is not quite accurate as far as magic goes you would have to consider this the ultimate technology of the time.I mean think it over the ability to summon massive forces to your aid,shields,rangeless spells,levitating to take the high ground,etc....Although it does take tactics to when war,it is like when the Spaniards came to South America,Although the natives had a better lay of the land their fall was inevitable.There could be an argument made for a long protracted ground war,after the first conquering wave.But technology always would win the war.It would be like entering a country with no planes,helicopters,or missles the battle would be over shortly.

Well, disease conquered the Native Americans more than anything, not Spanish Military might. While Cortez did do wonderer's with his few men, taking on thousands of Aztecs (which could just be the Spaniards over dramatizing things), it was disease the weakend them to the point of conquest, not warfare.

As for technology, the Dwenmer have everyone there. Submarines, airships, massive crossbows, steam creatures, they are the ultimate technology. As for magicka, its still limited. To summon massive forces you have to be of Psijjic quality, or have a hole lot of mages to do it, and bound weapons and armor go away, when you could just use regular swords and weapons. Not to mention, a mage is a vulnuerable to an arrow as anyone else. A high flying mage takes an arrow in the throat, game over.

While they do give you and edge, chances are its not enough to decide the outcome of the war, unless your an ancient uber mage or a Psijjic (or however you spell their name).

Disease was not the deciding factor although it did help,Montezuma said "they have pigs that fire stone and they ride deer they are like gods it is best to appease the stangers"so you could make an argument that the battle was already over.And do really think the Empire would not have unleashed every mage in their empire.And remember Morrowind only had ragtag militias.

If you get lit on fire you get burned, if you get stabbed in the throat you die....

I think if there was a big war it would be a bloody stale mate, until one side makes a tactical error, or until the dark elves lose to many men....

Taking Morrowind's 'ragtag' militia for granted is not a very good idea, especially since On Morrowind is an Imperial book, and let us remeber that winners write the history books. Morrowind's rag tag militia drove out the nords, slaughtered Agronian armies and we're good enough to brave Argonias deadly swamps to capture slaves (assuming they would use military forces to do so). Lets not forget its well known that the Dunmer are fierce warriors. They may not have the skill of the legions, but they are no push overs.

Now, the empire did use mages, we know they did, but again, thats not exactly enough to decide the outcome of the war.

Your statements are true but remember in these battles the Telvanni probally particapated in.There are several other refrences in game,where the people of Morrowind are still upset with the Telvanni's decision to stay out of the war.I get a real feeling that the Morrowind folk believe they could have won if the Telvanni backed them.

I'm 100% sure the Telvanni didn't participate in ANY battle. The house was neutral, and any involvment would have drawn them in, they simply didn't care. Hmm, see, I never got that vibe from the people in game. The Telvanni only care about themselfs and thats it, and are really rather snotty, thats a big reason people don't like Telvanni. I think, if it was about them remaining neutral, it wasn't because they thought it was because they could have helped change the tide, it was because they betrayed Morrowind. Dunmer don't like traitors, and thats what the Telvanni could be seen as, traitors. Had the Telvanni participated, what difference would they had really made?

Yes I see your point,but never the less there are actually statements from native Morrowinders when you ask them about Morrowind or Morrowind lore,who say things like if those Telvanni would have helped we could have fought.But I do indeed see your point it was like they turned their backs on them.But I do believe they particapted in early battles.

I think Morrowind would [censored] the empire...They've got ordinators and high ordinators, all kinds of awesome soldiers and warriors...Hell, they've got GODS...

Gods? Not anymore they don't.

EDIT: Also, I'm certain that the number of Ordinators and High Ordinators (which are only the soldiers of House Indoril, mind you) are greatly outnumbered by the Legions of the Empire. Also, I'd be surprised if the number of Ordinators wasn't significantly lessened after the civil war that occured in the 6 year period between Morrowind and Oblivion. Even with Indoril at their prime, they'd still get smacked around a bit.

ancient uber mage...hmm, now if only morrowind had some of those.

oh wait, they do. what are they called again?

right...Telvanni.

your argument would be legitimate if you took into account the power of the Telvanni House. This isn't some local hole in the wall Mages Guild defying an empire. Its a couple of thousand(s) year old mages who have pretty much seen more than most mortals have. Remember, the Telvanni were the ones who closed some gates in Morrowind during the crisis. While it is true they did not act in previous engagements, I think the Telvanni have the power to summon large numbers of troops to aid their house brethren. If only the houses could stop tearin each other apart and unify under a warleader...like a Hortator or something.

as for the whole "arrow to throat" argument....All you need is someone to cast a wide effect shield spell. And just because the game doesn't allow you to do it doesnt mean the Telvanni are incapable.

my 2 cents.

-Hexon

The armies of Morrowind faced off against the last Reman emperor in the Four Score War, with Vivec himself as commander-in-chief. The year is 1E 2920. The Tribunal are still getting their yearly baths of divinity at Red Mountain and the Reman Empire is closing in on them.

Vivec," she said, and he raised his head in a smile, looking at her face across thousands of miles. "I have seen a vision of the end of the war."

"After eighty years, I don't think anyone can imagine an end," said Vivec with a smile, but he grew serious, trusting Almalexia's prophecies. "Who will win? Morrowind or the Cyrodilic Empire?"

"Without Sotha Sil in Morrowind, we will lose," she replied. (Carlovac Townway's http://imperial-library.info/mwbooks/2920.shtml series)

It is almost nine hundred years later when Dagoth Ur reclaims Red Mountain in 2E 882, thereby preventing the Tribunal their annual reinvigoration.

Vivec was weaker than when he fought the Cyrodiilic Empire, plus he knew who Tiber Septim symbolized, as shown in the words of http://imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#19: "He saw the twin head of a ruling king who had no equivalent. And eight imperfections rubbed into precious stones, set into a crown that looked like shackles, which he understood to be the twin crowns of the two-headed king. And a river that fed into the mouth of the two-headed king, because he contained multitudes."

Finally, Vivec loved Tiber Septim. "And it was of the Tower that my emperor wanted to hear. He was dying and I loved him yet." (http://imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml#2)

In summary, Morrowind would have lost should it have resisted the rule of the Septim Empire. Septim's rule was foretold. "Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. ... It is a warrior youth from High Rock." (http://imperial-library.info/mwbooks/arcturian.shtml)

May the Light of Knowledge grace your lives under JHUNAL's mighty hand, for I remain...


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

Well, not everyone in House Telvanni are thousand year old super mages, in fact, their leaders may be, but we all know the Telvanni have a selfish love for themselfs, and I doubt you will see any of their masters exposed on a battlefield. Even if, Magicka is still limited, and does run out. Unless they had a huge supply of restore magicka potions or something they constantly drank, then there great armies of creatures would fall apart.

Aside from that, summons, unless Daedra (which don't take orders well) are mostly incapable of tactical decisions. An army of skeletons vs a Legion would loose, no doubt, because the legion would easily outmaneuver the bone heads, and again, a simple arrow could end it all as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Morrowind couldn't have done anything other than surrender (or whatever they did, I can't be bothered). A protracted war would have betrayed the nature of the Empires war of conquest.

I hope I'm reading that right.

Indeed, they might have closed some Oblivion Gates. Or rather, to be exact, the quote goes "I have heard things are bad in Vvardenfell. The Telvanni do their best to close the gates, but it is to no avail". The Gate closing business wasn't going very well for the.

In addition, the ones that they tried to close were probably just those who threatened their territory, because they do not give a damn about other people. Not even their own lower classes, probably. They would not take part in a war against anything (Non-House) unless forced to, not untill (in this case) the Empire came to close to their own islands. And even then, som of them would probably ally with the Empire just to be able to conquer their neighbours.


Or a wall of fire, burning the arrows to ash. Or a large telekinesis wave, disrupting the arrows' flight. Even large, otherwise very deadly arrow rains can be dealt with this way. I think, the best way to deal with large quantities of mages is to engage them into close combat.
Though getting close might prove quite difficult, not to say very dangerous.



A wise mage-general would of course only apply a part of the mages under his command in battle at one time, letting the others rest and restore their magicka. If it was me, I would use at least three or four different shifts, to make sure there is and almost rested reserve to use as well.

Telvanni unwillingness and apathy must be understood in context.

Whilst they endeavor to create a wall of emnity between themselves and their fellows, this in reality is false for all Telvanni Lords and their supplicants. The Telvanni know they are Dunmer and part of Morrowind, it is the Empire that they are scornful and wary of, and it is the Empire-infiltrated-Morrowind that they prefer not to be part of.

It's widely know, and has been for eras that the Telvanni are master necromancers, yet no Telvanni, Mage Lord or otherwise has been willing to perform necromancy on a a deceased fellow dunmer. There are some things that even Telvanni sense transgression in, and the rites of kin and hearth are felt by all Dunmer. If Morrowind was truly threatened, the Telvanni would act. That is why they acted in retaliation against the Daedra, but not the Empire.

Although I agree with most of this I have a hard time,believing that since the begining of time no Telvanni has ever done this.There is the belief that no sane Telvanni has ever done this.But regardless this would have nothing to do with them summoning Daedra.And as for their not helping when the Empire came,I really don't think they cared who ran the show they were going to do what they wanted anyway,wisdom confers power,power confers right.This is their motto and they remain true to it.So if the Empire told them you are going to have to give up slavery or your traditions,then the Telvanni would uprise.The Telvanni don't give a hoot what the Empire tells the other houses to do,they see them selves as a above all of this.

The sane ones are the ones that matter. It's not as if Therana (bless her) can do much, most of the functions of her tower are delegated to other people, with her just existing at the top. I don't doubt their power, but lucidity is an important part of intelligence... most of the time.

While some pockets of resistance might have remained the empire certainly could have conquered morrowind. You are forgetting that all the empire needs to do is conquer the farmland of Morrowind and the war would end rather quickly. The empire would be supplied with food from multiple points so as long as they secured their supply lines it would merely be a matter of waiting the dunmer out. While castles may have enough food and water to resist a siege, add in thousands of refugees to the mix and you would find your resources drained rather quickly. Ultimately in open warfare the empire would probably have prevailed against the Dunmer, because the imperial legion would march through the mainland of morrowind first their heavy armor troops would not facing as tough of terrain as they would in Vvanderfall (however its spelled). After that victory as I previously said all the empire would have to do was wait until the dunmer were on the brink of starvation and move in for the kill, especially since their gods no longer had access to the heart so while they would certainly be strong, they would die under weight of numbers if nothing else.