Okay, I asked this in Oblivion General and was told to ask here, so hopefully I get some more coherent thoughts.

To my understanding, there is Oblivion, which is the void in which Mundus exists. Mundus is the name for the collective realms that exist within Oblivion, such as Nirn, The Shivering, The Deadlands, The Pits, Attribution's Share, etcetera.

I also understand that The Deadlands is the Daedric Realm belonging to Mehrunes Dagon.

I'm guessing that "Gate of Oblivion" is a misnomer, because if everything above is true, they're really Gates to The Deadlands.

So why, then, is it that they ARE called gates to Oblivion, there are only references to The Deadlands being Oblivion, and when Martin defeats Mehrunes Dagon is it said that Oblivion has been sealed off from Nirn? That last one is even nonsensical if Nirn exists within Oblivion. I highly doubt this is just some massive error on Bethesda Soft's part, so why? Is it just a regional misnomer, such as, the people of Tamriel just don't differentiate on two things that are completely different?

The Deadlands, like the Shivering Isles, are both realms of Oblivion.

[ramblings]
I sometimes wonder if Oblivion itself is outer space, and the planes of Oblivion are in fact extrasolar planets conquered and shaped by the Daedric Princes, and thus, Oblivion gates are more like stargates than interdimensional rifts.
[/ramblings]

I understand what The Deadlands are, and what Oblivion is, but you haven't even touched on my question.

The Deadlands exist within the Void of Oblivion, as do the Shivering Isles.

Oblivion stinks for lore... I bet 90% of all players think all of oblivion is the dead lands since they make no real effort to explain it. Even Peryite's and Boethia's realm is the dead lands in oblivion...

Beth just put in no effort... And the main quest is just garbage.

And about shutting the gates to oblivion, also makes no sense. Since you can still summon daedra from oblivion. Not to mention the Sheogorath opens a flippin' gate to oblivion with no trouble.


I also don't understand why Dagon had so much trouble getting to the mortal plane. He was recently summoned in Mournhold and wrecked the place. Poor Dagon is always getting banished back into oblivion. The poor guy just wants some fresh air, he can't help it if he steps on stuff.

Okay, let me rephrase this question, I guess I was too confusing. Why are The Deadlands consistently referred to as Oblivion in-game?

It was more than simply summoning Daedra to Nirn, it was a literal gateway between the two realms that allowed for entire daedric invasion. And Sheogorath's portal presented no threat to Tamriel, it was an invitation, and it seems that only mortals could travel through the portal.


Because they're still part of Oblivion; not all of Oblivion is the void. And frankly, most mortals don't know that much about Oblivion to really care about proper naming.

A slight correction. Mundus and Nirn are essentially the same thing, you can use the terms interchangeably. Yes, Mundus is surrounded by Oblivion, which includes Shivering Isles, Deadlands etc, however Mundus is not included in those realms as part of Oblivion. Rather, Mundus lies distinctly at the center and is blocked off from Oblivion by the Lunar Lattice (more or less a barrier created by the moons) and the barrier of the Towers. Its like layers of an egg: Nirn/Mundus is at the center, which is surrounded by Oblivion, which is surrounded by Aetherius.

So, the gates are a means of bypassing that barrier. Martin is slightly exaggerating when he says that Oblivion is sealed off, there are still ways of making connections, however it is sealed off in the sense that you won't see gates haphazardly popping up anymore once the barrier is secured.

I think Mankar Camoran speaks about the other voids of oblivion while he is in the mythic dawn shrine. But it is easily missed.

But yeah, most common folk prob don't really know all that much about oblivion besides daedra worshipers.

Alright, that makes sense, I was under the impression that Mundus was all realms, guess that's what I was getting wrong.

Its understandable, and just for future reference, 'the Aurbis' is the term used to refer to all the realms...

Duly noted. Thanks again, guys.

Because the laymen of Cyrodiil are ignorant of the finer details of Oblivion cosmology. Generally speaking, only the Emperor and his staff, the Mages' Guild, and Daedra cults would really know the difference.

Probably because gates to Oblivion was more generic but to be honest, I have no clue. It's like asking why the devs didn't make Cyrodil a jungle but it's pretty clear to me at least that the aim was to make Oblivion more generic fantsy, I mean, they referred to the Dwemer as the Dwarves and never as the Dwemer, there is no moonsugar, it's fantasy fields, forests, mountains, swamps etc. So it seems logical that they are called "Gates to Oblivion" insteadof Gates to the Deadlands because it's more generic and maybe Imperials just don't care about the proper names for things. Dwemer-Dwarven and Deadlands-Oblivion.

is it just a coincident that boethia and peryites reals look exactly like mehrunes dagons or is it just beth being lazy AGAIN
i know it would be hard to make something really unique like the shivering isles for one small deadric quest but i think they should have went all the way
they did for that painting quest and made a unique landscape so i dont get why they couldent do i place that small for the quests

well the deadlands are part of oblivion and if u look on a timline the shivering isles is supposed to happen in the 4th era of what ive read in my days but it could be wrong and by oblivion is sealed forever i think its obvious he ment merunnes dagons gates.

on the oblivion wiki it says that boethias realm includes a massive maze garden but in game its just another daedlands . . . . . STUPID

Nope, any deadra's gate can be open but they can't invade Tamriel with it.

1. Not everyone's a scholar, and it would be understandable for some people to use an incorrect common term.
1.5 The emporer and mages guild... and higher members of the blades have little to no excuse in this.
2. The new Bethesda writers team didn't know the lore even though it was their job to! :banghead:

And @ nomania: The SHivering Isles takes place in the 3rd era because from several dialogue instances both Sheogorath and Haskill say that the Greymarch happens at the end of every era.

On a side-note: I always thought Nirn and Mundus were synonymous with eachother, and that Oblivion consisted of the 19 daedric realms...

Any other errors aside, that they refer to the Deadlands as Oblivion is just a generalization due to the fact that "Oblivion" is much more poetic than "Deadlands". Nobody wants to say that you have to "Close the marble jaws of The Deadlands," it just sounds crappy, and it makes little difference since The Deadlands are part of Oblivion... its harldy a reflection on the knowledge of the team.

You'd think people would pay more attention, since it is such a significant aspect of their universe.

In society'oblivion' is generally seen to mean things like fiery lands, the underworld, hell and the like. That plus like most people said TES IV svcks when it comes to lore, check out the other oblivon related topic in this thread about Kvatch, hopefully the next TES devs will be more competent when it comes to lore, if you are reading any of this devs make sure you have read all of the imperial library website and maybe this years topics in the lore forum so you don't mess up like last time.

i thought nirn was a planet containing akavir,tamriel etc and oblivion(daedric realms)where just another dimension :S

I'm not a huge lore buff, but I think it would be incorrect to call Nirn a planet. I could be wrong.

http://www.imperial-library.info/astro/#B2 is a planet. Its a ball of magicka and impossible.