Based on the screenshot of the skills menu, I think that Spells might have a casting chance like in Morrowind. The Destruction skill description says, "The School of Destruction covers the harnessing of elemental energies. This skill makes it easier to cast spells like Fireball, Ice Spike and Lightning Bolt"

The "easier to cast" part, IMO, suggests casting chances, or at least something like that. Perhaps it might be charging up spells, like what the mage appeared to be doing in one part of the gameplay trailer.

Do you think this is possible?

I think "easier to cast" means reduced magicka cost or speed at which the spell "charges up".

I would like it if they did return to that system, but I doubt they will. Perhaps a revamped, less harsh version, where the cast chance is signifcantly higher from the beginning, to stop cry-babies pissing themselves in frustration, could be implemented?
It was really rewarding in morrowind when you had practiced a spell enough to be able to do it consitently without failing

i feel the same way

I hate the chance system, and I am not a crybaby. This is not pen and paper, when you roll a die yourself, fair enough, but I do not want to be told by the computer that an invisible dice roll says no. Keep it out of enchanting and spellcasting, and instead severely limit the effects at low skill levels, please.

I personally don't think it's just reduced magicka, but it might well be spell charging.




I also quite like the system in Morrowind; it just felt somewhat more realistic. I could learn a powerful spell early on and I could try casting it, but I would likely fail. It gave more incentive to raise magic school skill levels, so that you look foward to every skill increase as it means an improvement in all spells in that school of magic, rather than just getting some reduction in magicka cost and having to wait until the next "tier" in order to get some true sense of improvement.

I would like to see a mixed system from Morrowind and Oblivion, in which improving your magic skills will reduce magicka cost by a little and also have spell casting chances.

EDIT: Also, when stuck in a deadly situation, casting a powerful spell that you have very low chance of casting and having it actually work and save your in-game life would feel quite awesome.

I hope not, at least in the sense of what we had with the previous system.

First off: That's just favour text, it could mean easier to cast because spells are cheaper later on, and you gain access to greater spell use as you level it.

Now back to why I hope not, I'm just going to use Oblivion here as most readers are most familiar with it.

Magicka cost.. if spells stay the same in cost a spell chance of failure is not worth it.
Armour... If your armour lowers the effectiveness then it's not worth the extra chance, or worse yet a greater chance of failure as a dual class build.
Enemies.. shear numbers of magic users already make a caster very under powered, only spell crafting and exploits even the odds here.
Summons.. See above, a pure mage fighting a cave with 6 mages and 4+ other creatures then fails a spell they summon 6 other creatures, you run out of power and die.
Leveled spells.. I finally get a spell that works, then find I need X to cast it, then I find I have only 12%+ chance of it working.
Stats.. As a mage I'm affected by fatigue, health and magicka, as a rogue archer mostly health, as a fighter health and fatigue.
None of those other builds has multipule handicaps towards stats, needs to use constant short term spells, or drink as many potions to stay in the game.

So imo with the current system it'll fail if not heavily imposed on NPC's as well****.
If they overhaul, magicka, armour, leveling maybe it will, but we have to wait tbh.

Edit **** I put this here because from what I've seen of rpg games including TeS.
The ratio of what a player is affected by is more and can do is less than an NPC's base abilities.

Besides, it's likely, or at least possible, that the OB 'perks', you can now cast apprentice level restoration spells etc., will be included in the perks for each school.
If you can't cast the higher level spells at all, without the requisite skill or perk, what's the point of failure chances?

It would be nice if NPCs could fail in casting their spells as well. I think of mages as being very powerful, but very vulnerable when casting spells, so IMO spells should not be that easily cast at a wave of a hand, perhaps it should require some charging if not casting chance. However, they should also be more powerful to compensate for such disadvantages, should they exist.

Spell failure on destruction spells ::: less damage like in spell effectiveness

I sure hope not, by all means, do add a system that makes spell casting take longer the noobier you are in the skill and ofcourse consume more magicka, but don't bring back MW kind of spell failing.

Yes if they go for powerful and added destruction / mayhem potential, balanced by a spell failure chance it could work.
I mean I too think of magic as fickle but extremely powerful.
However if you make it too powerful, then a have lots of users even one success could kill a player quickly.
Or a player could wipe out a horde of npc's and creatures with one spell.
Both would make the game unbalanced to two different groups.

Side topic: If spell failure comes into play, that will / may mean the Sound effect could come back.
Also why have it on magic and not in melee combat, surely with the better anims not hitting a target up close would not be that obvious.

Some sort of spell-charging system then? It would be nice, so that low level players can still cast powerful spells if they invest a lot of time into charging it up, especially if it's no longer as leveled as Oblivion, so warriors might find a powerful sword early on and use it, and mages can also find a powerful spell early on and use it.

EDIT: @Madocmayhem

I think having melee miss chances would be sort of weird, even with the better animations, as some weapons are hard to get away from, such as swinging a claymore in an arc, and missing with such an attack would look weird. Unless, they add a dodge system to the game. :shrug:

Putting RNG behind offensive abilities is usually a bad idea. Maybe just make it so that the higher your skill, spells can be cast quicker and cost less magicka.

Here's one way it could work:

Say you are a journeyman in destruction (using Oblivion's skill levels as an example), if you cast a journeyman-level spell or lower, it will always work, but if you try to cast something from a skill level higher than yours (like expert, for instance), then it has a chance of failure. It would still use the same amount of mana whether it succeeds or not.

In addition, if you try to cast a spell from a skill level two or more higher than your current skill level, there should be a chance for a critical failure--like a fireball blowing up in your face, setting you on fire.

Again, I realize that Skyrim's skill levels are different, but the same concept can probably be applied to it.

Everyone could be happy with this system; if you don't want the chance of failure, don't take the risk.

I think that's a very good idea. :thumbsup:

This way, spells can still be casted like in Oblivion, but instead of us not being able to cast higher-tier spells at all, we could cast more powerful spells with a risk of self-harm or wasted magicka. This way, I can either safely use my fireballs to kill a bunch of wolves one by one or I could try to cast a firestorm to wipe out the wolves quickly with a chance of setting myself on fire or emptying my magicka pool while the wolves attack.

If spell-tiers don't exist in Skyrim, perhaps a skill range of like 20 points could be used as "tiers".

Wow, fair play Patryn, you made a suggestion which appeals to both sides of an argument
http://images.wikia.com/tesfanon/images/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg
well deserved!

The chance system was a festering pile of puke from the bowels of stupidity. It died a well deserved death.

In Oblivion, you couldn't even cast spells from a higher teir. Additionally, such powerful spells would require a lot of magicka.. usually too much if you weren't near the intended level. So, since those spells are already prohibitively expensive, why hit the player again with a chance of failure?

From what I understood of the new magic system there won't be as much spells as it was in OB - say a low level detect life, a middle level and so on.

I think there will be only the base set of spell EFFECTS, if you remember well the form of the spell depends on HOW you cast it. So Skill will probably enhance the power of any effect in that school.

There you go--problem solved.




Yay, my first fishy-stick! Thanks :liplick:




I know; I was just saying how it could work in Oblivion, since I don't know exactly how Skyrim's skill system is set up.




True, but in Oblivion if you are a fairly high level and have high intelligence yet you have neglected a school of magic, then it is possible to have enough magicka to cast a spell from a couple of tiers higher than your current skill level.

As for why to "hit the player again with a chance of failure," without the chance of failure, you're just letting the player cast a spell that requires more magicka, which is no risk--just a cost.

There would be many things to work out an balance with this system, and I'm by no means saying that I have all the answers, but the core Idea is that players could play exactly as they did in Oblivion, with no chance of failure, or they could take a chance in a desperate moment and either be elated by the results or ruined by them. I don't see the downside, and it sounds like fun.




I wouldn't mind that at all. I remember back when I was playing Morrowind I also played Arx Fatalis, and the magic system was so much better in AF (in this one respect) because it worked like you described.

I doubt it will be spell chance.
I have mixed feelings on that system, it made for some intense moments and as you levels you really felt stronger. But it could get annoying.
But even though, you could practice easier, which was very good.

Im pretty certian bethesda won't do this. They seem as though they didn't like that system. Don't remember, but im pretty sure in an article somewhere todd said bad remarks about spell failure, but my memory doesn't serve me well...

Personally, I have no problem with a spell chance system such as Morrowind's returning. I liked the concept that as long as you had the magicka, you -COULD- cast the spell, but if it was a high level, there was a high chance of failure for you.

It might be one of the very few gameplay elements from Morrowind that I prefer over Oblivion.

I hope not. I'd rather have Oblivion's reducing of spell costs with higher levels obtained in the related skill.