Too many crashes - which mods to cut out? : IV

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:17 am

I've been playing with 200+ mods for a very long time now, but frequent crashes (not CTDs as it doesn't even get that far - just freezes and I can't get back to desktop so have to reboot) have gone from once every 45 minutes, to every 30 minutes, to the point where they're now happening every 5 minutes - basically whenever a fight is happening. I can walk around town for a very long time without crashes, but dungeons and wilderness crash consantly when enemies are near.

I think it's either due to the additional magic effects, or possibly just AI overload (although maybe not AI overload as it doesn't happen in busy towns, only when a fight is in progress either involving me, or a fight in the distance),

I run application booster to increase performance.

I tried playing in windowed mode and keeping an eye on performance - and when it crashed Oblivion was only using 545,288k of my 2.75gb RAM, 69% processor usage (of single core 3.2ghz Pentium 4) and texture memory was only at 153mb (of a 256mb x800 graphics card). So it doesn't even appear to be stressing the system too much!

Ayway, it's now not possible for me to continue the game as it crashes so often - so which mods are most likely to be buggy, AI heavy or script heavy? I'd really like to keep FCOM, LAME and Supreme Magicka, - but other than that I think I'm willing to cut any out if it means I can continue...

Load order as follows:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Jog_X_Mod.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b1]08  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm09  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm0A  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]0B  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0C  Better Cities Resources.esm0D  BetterMusicSystem.esm0E  CURP_Controller.esm0F  CustomSpellIcons.esm10  HorseCombatMaster.esm**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp11  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.4]12  DLCShiveringIsles.esp13  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]14  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]15  Oblivion.esp16  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp17  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp18  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]19  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1A  LoadingScreens.esp1B  LoadingScreensAddOn.esp1C  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1D  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Underwater.esp++  ln.esp1E  AmbientTownSounds.esp++  Diverse Voices.esp1F  Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm.esp20  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp21  Bedrollsanyone.esp22  Damsels In Distress.esp23  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.1.1]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]24  More_Vegetables.esp25  movingpaintings.esp26  Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp++  910-passive wildlife-TESSource.esp27  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.0]28  ReneerCreatureMod.esp29  SoT_Holiday.esp2A  Walk to Oblivion - OBSE.esp2B  Weapon Displays V1.9.esp2C  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.2.1]2D  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.3.1]2E  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]2F  Maps!.esp30  DLCHorseArmor.esp**  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]31  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]32  DLCOrrery.esp**  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]33  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]34  DLCVileLair.esp**  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]35  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.11]36  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp37  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]38  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]39  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]3A  Ayleid Artifacts.esp3B  MilkJugsComplete.esp3C  Nicos  Scimitars Back.esp  [Version 1.61]3D  PTArtifacts.esp3E  Vvardenfell_Imports.esp3F  DLCThievesDen.esp40  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]**  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]41  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.11]42  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]43  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]44  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp45  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp47  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]49  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls.esp  [Version 1.1]4C  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4D  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b1]4E  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.7b1]4F  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.7b1]50  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b1]51  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b1]52  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 1.4]53  MMM - Playable Undead Armors.esp++  MMM - Playable Undead Armors - Oblivion WarCry Compatability Patch.esp54  Mart's Monster Mod - Durzog Addon.esp  [Version 0.10]**  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]55  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 0.17]56  LoadingScreens-OOO.esp57  Geomancy & Gem Dust OOO.esp58  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]59  Banes Artifacts for Adventurers Part 1.esp5A  Banes Artifacts for Adventurers 2.esp5B  BHC_Expanded.esp  [Version 1.2]5C  BXX Tamriel Resource Exchange.esp5D  (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp5E  Sutch Reborn Spawn Patch.esp5F  Deathtrap Dungeon.esp60  Dwemer_Skyship_1_1_0.esp61  ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - The Arcane University Towers Visible From Outside.esp62  ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - All the Districts - Merged.esp63  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Castles - All The Castles - Merged.esp64  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp65  JQ-Return_of_Dagoth_Ur.esp66  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp67  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp68  GlenvarCastle.esp69  ME_DAEDRIC_RECON.esp  [Version 1.4]6A  mrSiikas_BetterPorts_Seagulls.esp6B  Order of the Virtuous Blood Expanded v0.3.esp6C  Vampire Hunting - Order Of The Virtuous Blood.esp6D  TelValus1pt1c.esp6E  TheElderCouncil.esp6F  thievery.esp70  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]71  za_bankmod.esp72  24HrArenaAliveV2Towers.esp73  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp74  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]75  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.11]76  DLCFrostcrag.esp77  Kvatch Rebuilt_Frostcrag Reborn.esp78  SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp  [Version 1.09]79  BrumaMGRestored.esp7A  BrumaMGRestored-Frostcrag.esp7B  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp7C  Knights.esp7D  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]7E  The Lost Spires.esp7F  LostSpiresImpeREALFortsPatch2.esp80  Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp  [Version 1.4]81  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp82  MannimarcoRevisited.esp83  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]84  Shadowcrest_Vineyard.esp85  Shadowcrest_Vineyard_Guard.esp86  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b1]**  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]87  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp++  FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp  [Version 0.9.9]88  ElsweyrAnequina.esp89  BetterMusicSystem(Elsweyr).esp8A  Reaper's Esmeralda's Desert Manor.esp8B  Daedric Shrine Ruins.esp8C  xuldarkforest.esp8D  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp8E  xulStendarrValley.esp8F  xulTheHeath.esp90  XulEntiusGorge.esp91  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp92  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]93  TheElderCouncil-FallenleafEverglade patch.esp94  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp95  xulChorrolHinterland.esp96  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]97  OOO-UL-Sutch patch.esp98  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]99  xulLushWoodlands.esp9A  xulAncientYews.esp9B  xulAncientRedwoods.esp9C  xulCloudtopMountains.esp9D  KragenirsDeathQuest-CloudtopMountains patch.esp9E  xulArriusCreek.esp9F  xulPatch_AY_AC.espA0  xulRollingHills_EV.espA1  xulPantherRiver.espA2  xulRiverEthe.espA3  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]A4  xulImperialIsle.espA5  xulBlackwoodForest.espA6  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A7  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.espA8  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A9  xulSkingradOutskirts.espAA  exhICMO.espAB  Castle_Seaview.espAC  CastleSeaview-SutchReborn-LostCoast patch.espAD  bartholm.espAE  Bartholm-Panther River Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]AF  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 1.0]B0  JTICTunnel.espB1  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B2  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B3  Diseased Corpses.esp++  Archmage_Enchanted_Chest_OBSE.espB4  Armoured Imperial Patrols - Realism.esp  [Version 1.0]B5  Badmagic - Landscape Fix for 20 -18.espB6  CBScryingv1.esp  [Version 1.0]B7  Cliff_BetterLetters.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Cliff_CountyNames.esp  [Version 1.1]++  LustyArgonianMaidContinued.esp++  MIEO-ae.espB8  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.0]B9  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]BA  QuestItemMessage.espBB  ReneerNPCNameMod.espBC  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]BD  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]BE  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp++  Vampire Fire by Darkhart.espBF  Disenchant.espC0  Magus Lost Alteration Spells.espC1  SpellDeflection.espC2  TeachSpell.espC3  RefScope.esp  [Version 2.0.1]C4  WoM-Corpse Disposal.espC5  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]C6  MidasSpells.espC7  Midas OscuroGems.espC8  Disease Immunity (Oblivion + Shivering Isles).espC9  Vector.esp  [Version 0.1]CA  No psychic guards v1.2.espCB  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]CC  Cant Wear Broken Armor.espCD  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block and 250% damage.espCE  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp++  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.86]CF  kuerteeNPCsYield.esp++  Francesco's Slower skills x1.5.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]D0  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]D1  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]D2  TheOubliette.espD3  Get Wet.esp++  Visually Realistic Lava.espD4  qazFingerSnap.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]D5  Bashed Patch, 0.esp++  Weight.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:49 pm

im not sure but i dont think you need this Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp... correct me if im wrong but i think thats for adding new mods

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:04 pm

Cutting out DR would probably help.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:33 pm

I can see a few problems... Your running the BC ESM but no Better cities :huh:

D5 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Anything could be in there... I don't use bash... I used too... my best advice is to constantly rebuild the patch... other than that just realize your load order is HUGE... there could be multiple comficts with multiple mods.

The Cobl filter is fine as it is merged into Bahed Patch.

Personally I only have about 50 mods on my Load order. I get no more then a CTD or 2 every month. When your running something like FCOM that edits so many aspects of the game you need to be careful what you load.

dbug

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:50 am

This happens to me sometmes when I install mods. I'll install so many that Oblivion becomes really unstable.

Here is what I usually do.

Without looking, name every mod you have. Chances are, if you can't remember the name of a mod, then it's not very important to your game and you can cut it out. You can easily cut out 15+ mods that you don't use anymore by doing this.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:15 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions...

I'm running the BC ESM as it's required for another mod (Extinguish the Lights) which I'd just disabled.....so thanks for pointing that out!

Is DR still associated with crashes then? I thought the hotfix sorted all that out...I'll try disabling and see how the game plays without it.

The bashed patch is up to date - I seem to be rebuilding it every 10 minutes as I disable mods to troubleshoot my issues!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:00 pm

You should update MMM to 3.7b3 and also FCOM to the UFCOM release. Updating MMM is a bit of a hassle as you have to remove the previous install (i.e. all resources as well) first, but it's worth it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:15 pm

Yeah, I would really like to do that - but I read the instructions when released and got confused on how to remove the correct resources manually!

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:23 am

Yeah, I would really like to do that - but I read the instructions when released and got confused on how to remove the correct resources manually!

Either http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7557 or I think you also can reinstall your current MMM version as an OMOD and then simply deactivate it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:12 pm

Either http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7557 or I think you also can reinstall your current MMM version as an OMOD and then simply deactivate it.

Yep, create an omod consisting of the MMM resources (no need to bother with the esp files if you don't want). Activate the omod and answer yes to overwrite all the conflicting files (ctrl-clicking Yes will count as Yes to all), then deactivate the omod again, and all resource files not also used by any other omod will be deleted.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:00 am

I see the CURP Controller, but not CURP mods (Sutch is DC, and actually needs and earlier CyrodilUpgradeResourcesPack.esm, if I recall.

That can't be helping, especially as CURP mods are quite intrussive and probably cause lots of conflicts.

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:32 am

I see the CURP Controller, but not CURP mods (Sutch is DC, and actually needs and earlier CyrodilUpgradeResourcesPack.esm, if I recall.

That can't be helping, especially as CURP mods are quite intrussive and probably cause lots of conflicts.

He's got the CURP Controller, but I'd say ditch it too.

Don't Passive Wildlife and Ren's Creature Mod do the same thing?

Honestly, if my game got to that point, I'd rip everything out and reinstall it. Chances are you've got some remnants from old mods mucking up the works and a fresh install will help immensely.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:37 am

He's got the CURP Controller, but I'd say ditch it too.

Don't Passive Wildlife and Ren's Creature Mod do the same thing?

Honestly, if my game got to that point, I'd rip everything out and reinstall it. Chances are you've got some remnants from old mods mucking up the works and a fresh install will help immensely.

Heh, yep this install does date back a couple of years at least...

I know how long it'll take to reinstall everything I want (and download all the mods, some of which aren't available any more...) - let alone have conflicts with my current save games, changing that many mods at once...

I've got Origin of the Mages Guild 1.0 which requires CURP (well actually maybe I should have mentioned that the version of OMG I've got is the patch for the Universitas Arcanarum mod found http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32432 - which is both mods merged together and renamed to Origin of the Mages Guild.esp so BOSS recognises it...)

I'll try the OMOD route for removing MMM - thanks for the suggestion!

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:23 pm

Interesting development...

I've discovered that the game freezes after about 5 minutes even when I'm in pause mode! If the game is on pause, then surely it can't be an AI or mod conflict issue as if I understand it correctly no scripts should be running while paused.

I've disabled more mods including Deadly Reflex and a few that need OBSE in case that was the issue, and now have less than 175 mods running and it's still crashing.

So does this mean it''s more likely to be a system or hardware issue? I've run memtest and no issues with my RAM, the hard drive has been defragmented recently, Application Booster is on, and the pagefile is set to a secondary internal hard drive (with a small amount left on C as recommended)...

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:53 pm

So does this mean it''s more likely to be a system or hardware issue? I've run memtest and no issues with my RAM, the hard drive has been defragmented recently, Application Booster is on, and the pagefile is set to a secondary internal hard drive (with a small amount left on C as recommended)...

Try loading a game with only Oblivion.esm. If it's stable then - it should be a mod issue. If it still freezes - that would indicate hardware/driver issues.

Personally, I would bite the sour apple and do a complete reinstall from scratch. Alternatively, cut down do a basic FCOM setup - with the latest versions of course - so you get a stable game. Then go from there but slowly.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:20 am

Sounds so obvious a thing to try, I don't know why I didn't try that before - thanks for the suggestion!

I've disabled all mods other than oblivion.esm and oblivion.esp - will try as soon as I finish work for the day.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:33 pm

I HIGHLY recommend CFF explorer if you haven't already done so.
It really helped stabilize my game & now I run for several hours at a time w/o a crash.
Wyndham Earle's crashfix helped a bit too.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32405

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Heh, yep this install does date back a couple of years at least...

I know how long it'll take to reinstall everything I want (and download all the mods, some of which aren't available any more...) - let alone have conflicts with my current save games, changing that many mods at once...

I run about 200 mods, and it takes me about 8 hours to reinstall and check everything. You'd probably have to start a new game - I've often found that problems like this corrupt the saves and even reinstalling won't help. Besides, it's a chance to start a new character.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:52 pm

Quick update if anyone's interested - I disabled all mods other than oblivion.esm and oblivion.esp, loaded the save successfully, played for 5 minutes...then freeze as usual!

I installed Oblivion onto a friend's laptop, then copied the contents of Bethesda/Oblivion directory and My Games/Oblivion directory (copying over all the mods plus saves etc.) - loaded my latest save game - and it seems to be working fine there!

So if it's not a mod issue, an overload issue, or a cluttered/remnants of old mods issue (as it works fine on my friend's laptop with exactly the same oblivion directory), I can only assume I have some sort of system or hardware issue...(although Fallout 3 works fine on my computer).

Unless...any mods that I've installed recently have installed SM3 shaders when I only have an SM2 graphics card, and it's crashing when an SM3 shader is activated...I checked to see if SM/LAME added shaders but I couldn't find any reference to any, and don't remember manually installing any.

Otherwise I can't see why other games work fine on my computer, and this exact oblivion install work's fine on my friend's computer when I copied it over!

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:56 pm

Quick update if anyone's interested - I disabled all mods other than oblivion.esm and oblivion.esp, loaded the save successfully, played for 5 minutes...then freeze as usual!

What's oblivion.esp?

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:32 pm

I run application booster to increase performance.

I would suggest against it. What are your specs?

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:18 am

As far as I understand, Oblivion.esp is a dummy esp used to load resources from the bsa file - it's always been there for me - surely I'm not the only one?

It's not a good idea to run application booster? I'm running a Windows XP pentium 4 (single core) 3.2ghz with 2.75gb ram and an x800 pro 256mb (sm2) graphics card. As I mentioned, Oblivion is using hardly any ram or processor when it crashes.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:27 pm

As far as I understand, Oblivion.esp is a dummy esp used to load resources from the bsa file - it's always been there for me - surely I'm not the only one?

I've never had it. Guess it can be used in order to not have to have the bsa's registered in the ini, but it's not a vanilla resource.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:55 pm

That's interesting! I've had oblivion.esp in my folder for so long that I didn't even realise it wasn't vanilla - maybe it came with a mod I downloaded years ago as an early form of BSA redirection.

I ran CFF explorer, but no difference unfortunately.