I got it, so Sithis is the TESCS and CHIM is the console....right? :ahhh:

TESCS is also CHIM, as you can alter reality with it.

Zero Sum is when your savegame gets corrupted.

But Sithis... Is when you uninstall the whole thing.

I hate when people make equations like this. It's so boring and easy to do. CHIM is CHIM. Sithis is Sithis.

no, that would be the boring way...making more out of something that's easily explained. the devs must be laughing their butts off.

and anyways, zero-sum is when the game crashes.

Personally, turning something that is really realizing you don't truly exist but still being such a selfish enough person to continue existing is a lot more interesting to me than just say "its the console." And it's really easy to make that equation; tons of people have done it before. And I'd never ready TES lore again if that is (the only thing) what it is.

I cry inside when I find people who subscribe to that idea :shakehead:

which is what makes chim discussions hilarious. chim in the literal sense is the allusion to the console and player, and it's metaphorical sense is the whole philosophy. both are perfectly valid, and it's amusing to see the conflicts between literal observation and esoteric wordplay.

That's a shame.

The problem with that logic is that your's is making less out of something often fairly difficult to explain. How is just waving CHIM off as the console or Sithis as the TESCS "making more out of it"? If anything it robs it of any depth that it had. :ninja:

The thing is is that there is plenty to support the latter theory, while nothing to support the former. You may call it observation, but the only thing tying CHIM to the console (though really its more to the CS) is a single line in the Commentaries or whatever saying that people that have it can change the world. Every other source document on CHIM is in no way applicable to either the console or the TESCS. How exactly can you come to either of those conclusions after reading Vehk's Teachings, the Loveletter or anything else on the subject? :confused:

And there's not even a slight connection between Sithis and the TESCS. Where did that anology even come from? You might as well say that Mehrunes Dagon or Fargoth are the TESCS.

Your argument (and the OP's) have no basis, which is of course why neither one of you took the effort to back up your statements. You can't do more than state you idea, and the OP couldn't have posted more than a single line, because that interpretation has no grounds to make a actual argument out of. :woot:

Actually, I could probably put up more evidence to demonstrate that CHIM and the console & CS are diametrically opposed than you could to say otherwise.

:turtle:

Nailed it right on the head. I'd kiss you right now if I could.

How about instead of telling people they are wrong because they have a unique interpretation of CHIM and writing them off as stupid you agree to disagree? If he wants to think CHIM is the console, he's not any more right then you. You can think of it in your way and they can think of it in their way.

The elitism here is astounding. It starts off with not giving people who come here straight answers to simple questions and then turns into acting high-and-mighty because some people like to make neat little connects like this.

I agree with them, I think CHIM is the console. I think Vivec used ToggleGodMode and Talos used the CS. Am I stupid now? Am a "new player"?

I cry inside when I find people who subscribe to that idea

its a metaphor really, and as that it is quite effective. however, saying "CHIM is the console" does not cover all that CHIM is (namely a philosophical concept ingrained in the nature of existence). in other words, its not wrong, but its not right either.

Of course he's not any more right than us, mainly because he's wrong.

Nowhere did I just write them off as stupid (well, with the Sithis = CS I did, but that one deserved it). Rather, I challenged whatever line of thought brought about their 'interpretation'. I have no problem with people interpreting things differently, however if they do so I expect them provide at least have a small basis for their argument. Nobody in this thread has provided a shred of a reason as to why anybody should think that CHIM is the console or Sithis the CS, probably because there's no reason to think that other than to try and be different or 'innovative'.

Interpretations can be argued, they're not all equal, and its just wrong to say that that explanation makes the game "deeper" in some sense when really its just writing it off as a jest.

Ok. That's fine. Now why do you think that? Or are you just haphazardly and arbitrarily throwing it out as your 'interpretation' because you don't like the other side's argument... Again, how you come to that conclusion after reading any of the source material on CHIM, or do you just base it off the one line about "being able to shape the world" and disregard everything else that CHIM entails?

If you all could support your line of thinking or provide any rationale whatsoever instead of just trying to go against the grain then perhaps people would give you a little more credence. B)

:turtle:

I've been reading posts in the Lore section for some time now, and I've seen the topic of CHIM come up quite frequently. I think I may have come up with an anology of my own, but of course any lore buffs that know better can correct me as they see fit.

To use a comparison I think most people are familiar with, I think that Agent Smith in "The Matrix Reloaded" could be described as 'achieving CHIM', where the Matrix itself is the equivalent of the Godhead. After all, he was fully aware that he was nothing more than a part of the Matrix, and that as a result there really was no 'him' to speak of. But, this didn't stop him from acting as though he were a completely solitary entity, unique from the rest of the Matrix (again, Godhead) around him. Although he wasn't sure how it occurred, he slowly found himself able to begin manipulating the world around him, changing it as he saw fit, to the point where he was nigh unstoppable.

Of course, if there's any credence to this theory, then would that make Neo the equivalent of Zero Sum? After all, he had comparable attributes of Smith, but wasn't really part of the Matrix, and in the end only managed to stop him by destroying them both.

Anywho, just an interpretation I thought I'd offer up to the conversation.

Closing for cause. It's not acceptable to go calling other members or their opinions stupid, even if you think you have a well-founded belief that they are. That's an offense that will get you suspended.

Anyway, CHIM is the state of Bugs Bunny in "Duck Amuck" when he has Daffy entirely at his mercy. And Sithis is the eraser.