Self explanatory. I find it incredibly stupid how personality governs a skill that should go with intelligence.

Any other skills that make any remote sense to govern personality? Not really. Unless if they make a new skill.

Yes. Of course Attributes may be out but if they return than they should change that. I think the best way to fix this is either drop Personality or merge Speed and Agility. That way each of the main classes have 2 primary attributes and then Luck.

Edit: @ Dovahkiin: True, Mercantile and Speechcraft of course but those are probably merged anyways.

I just imagine illusion magic partly impresses yourself upon the victim target, and your personality affected how well you could trick them...


or something..

doesn't really work for paralyze, think that was an illusion spell...

Drop personality? Really? So your suggesting we just drop speechcraft and mercantilism?

No not really it makes sense to me.

Your Illusion are based on the power of your personality, to more powerful a person you are, more convincing, the stronger your image and self confidence etc, the stronger your illusions are and the more real they feel look and act, it amkes perfect sense.

EDIT: What Xeivous said was what I was trying to say.

Hmmm Illusion a school of mind bending, trickery, commands, controls, deceit, charms and sparkling stuff.
Basically a cross between Illusion and Enchantment / charm of AD&D.

I'd say Personality was as good a match as any, willpower would be used to fight off commands and intelligence to ward off unreal illusions.
Actually in control of using / casting these spells neither is that great imo.


If they do it's bye bye from me.
Hello bland combat based rehash of most games.

I dunno, there can be an argument made for willpower and personality as well. It just depends on the rational your using. If you've read the Dresden File series it would seem that illusions are pretty willpower dependent.

I don't think you need any personality to tweak someones mind. That's what illusion was all about, messing with someones mind to make strange behaviors or to bend light to make various effects as invisibility and light. But as I see, you don't need to be funny or a person with good personality to bend light or minds... It makes no sense.

Paralyze fits in illusion as I would suppose illusion is to mess with someones brain. So I would suppose Paralyze would stop muscular impulses from the brain.

Please quote me. When did I ever say to drop speechcraft and mercantile?

Uh, think about it for more than two seconds. No other attribute could govern Speechcraft or Mercantilism. So if Personality is gone, so are those skills.

I was suggesting to move illusion to intelligence. Not to remove personality. Learn 2 Read :facepalm:

Think about the caster vs the target.
Two mages trained in mind manipulation.
The first is a hot chick in tight cut off clothing, with a nice smile, sweet voice and charming manner.
The second is Mr T's body double with the added voice of Brian Blessed.

The first casts a spell and asks you to hand over your gold by gently whispering in your ear brushing closely to you.
The Second cast the same spell then screams give me your wallet fool, not seeming to notice the twelve guards stood around.

This is roleplaying, someone that uses magic that goes to type.
That can use illusion without drawing too much attention, will be better than someone that just sticks out too much.


This again, second time you've used this confrontational metheod, it is bad form to use facepalm, I've seen mods lock threads for its use.

I didn't even quote you the first time...maybe you should "Learn 2 read" and "learn 2 type"

I quoted Badprenup the first time, not you.

You said drop personality. How would you govern speechcraft and mercantile without personality?

It was Badprenup that said that. Lackrome quoted me without paying attention.

Edit: Pronouns are bad, mkay?

i think it fits. i dont see personality as just "charm" but "presence" as well. a person with great presence can make himself seem bigger, more important or more powerful than he really is. or thats how i justify it in my head anyway

Of course this also contradicts game mechanics. For instance, if you charm someone and open up the persuasion wheel you will observe the effect was almost instant. And what your saying is that persuading a person like "The hot chick in tight cut off clothing, with a nice smile, sweet voice and charming manner." would take a long time to to persuade someone to 100 disposition. Charm and Command Humanoid/Creature is supposed to against their own will. It's not like they heard your voice inside their head when their disposition is 0 and immediately fight to the death for you. How about calm? Do you just nicely ask the minotaur to stay put while he's trying to viciously impale a horn in your freaking face? It's supposed to be a skill where you make people do actions against their will.

Ah game mechanics.. we have a game that takes anywhere up to twenty hits from an over sized war hammer to kill a bandit.

Yes the spell is instant, but what is stoping everyone else suddenly noticing the sudden change in behaviour?
Think of hypnotisim it's not a battle of wills, it's a way of persuading someone to do something.
No matter how willful you are they won't do something they're opposed to without a good reason, someone that is good looking or has a way with words and personality is better for this.
Minotaurs are beasts, intelligent somewhat, you note some can make animals behave better not with willpower but through behavioural science and studies of personality shifts.

Spells also require words in fantasy, they require songs, words of power, gestures of the hands / body, ingredients all of these are not in CRPG's as it'll be a nightmare to do so.
So again game mechanics contradict roleplaying mechanics, and fantasy mechanics.

Also you've gone from intelligence to willpower, you could say strength as to throw balls of energy requires might.
Endurance to harness that raw power.
Luck as it requires it not to get fried.
Agility as you have to get close and touch someone, or hit with a ranged spell.
Speed to get through the mental defenses that a target could erect before you cast a spell.