I remember how the devs justified having a set skill for each speech challenge rather than the old percentage based dice roll since it could be circumvented through reloading a save but will this apply to pickpocketing too now? I just noticed this was never talked about since I'm trying to ninja some loot in F3 right now and it's annoying.

Probably. I would prefer some sort of minigame.

I hadn't heard that speech checks are a threshold instead of a %. This is good. I hated having maxed out speech and STILL not being able to pass every check

So you're saying that speech checks have a fixed value threshold instead of a dice roll? First I've heard of this.

I don't mind the dice roll. I felt that even if you are very good at something there is still a slight chance of failure.

My gripe was that you could just do a reload and try again.

Obviously it is up to the player if they want to play that way (reload style). But I felt for certain things in the game, such as speech checks, you should only get one chance and there should be some type of autosave function that keeps a person from using a reload exploit.

I can't say I like the threshold idea, I think there should be a chance of failure in certain skill checks.

If the only reason they changed it was to prevent a player reloading to try again, then they ought to remove all the combat.... Whenever I fail at combat, I reload... I must be exploiting the game, right?

^ lol y u mad tho

^^
Not mad.
Just trying to demonstrate the flaw in the logic behind changing a game mechanic simply as a response to players reloading to try again... That's what the save and load features are there for.

Agreed, it's kind of silly to try to prevent save exploiting in the RPG elements but permit it freely during combat.

As someone who loves exploiting various speech options, I enjoyed being able to save abuse; however, if it's changed to simply a threshold I suppose that's alright.

Well, while I agree that it's not exploiting the game (I do it all the time), I won't argue with people calling it cheap or whatsoever, since it's true in some ways. Besides, what's the alternative? That's right kids... checkpoints.

The alternative is that they come up with a balanced skill system and then actually use it. Why do the developers even care how the players play the game? Isn't it about letting the players just enjoy it however they want?

The thing about speech check or lockpick check is that why incorporate it if you can reload and do it until you succeed. Only useful thing lockpick skill would do is enabling you to pick harder lockpicks. I never put points into speech in FO3 because I had 100% chance of getting every speech check by reloading and reloading until I succeeded. What this does is rendering those skills almost useless. Combat is a tactic; your first tactic hasn't worked? Reload and try a new one. Skills checks are random, they are totally different.

There is a question, though: How long are you willing to "reload and reload and reload" and does the time you use to it affect the satisfaction you get when you finally succeed despite the magnitude of the reward?

Combat isn't a dice roll. That's why reloading again and again to get a favorable dice roll seems cheap to me, but hey, play the game how you want.

I reload as much as the next guy, but at times i feel like I'm cheapening my experience. Repeating every dialogue and battle until you have the perfect outcome. Ever wonder what the game would be like if you couldn't spam save anytime you wanted? A hell of alot more challenging probably.

I just like to see save systems that make don't make spamming reload such a viable option and making failure have consequences.

And yes there are alternatives to check points and save spamming. How bout you only get to save in certain places, like an owned/rented bed. Or have a limited number of times you can save, like typewriter ribbons from the early resident evils. Or you can only save once every 24 hours.

IMO, having less chances to save and reload really increases the feel of the game being a RPG. Not only do you get the feeling of permanent choices, but you get more of feeling of accomplishment when you feel you've made a SERIES of choices that made your character come out on top.

While I disagree with saving limits, I agree with the SERIES part. There is a simple way to change this, DONT DO IT if your against it and who the .. cares if someone else does.

Combat is based both on your characters skill and your skill as a player. Checks (threshold) depend only on your character. So when you fail, it's simply because it's beyond your characters reach at the moment (for reason), regardless of your skill as a player. Also, combat lasts much longer and you'll probably reload once or twice if you don't succeed. But, you could reload your save (percentage) like more than ten times in a minute or two, so that wouldn't make sense.

*Insert that filtered music and film of the 1950s government films*

Careful there Jim, thats logical thinking, people on this forum don't take to kindly to that kind of thing around here.

*credits roll*