According to Webster, it says an incarnation in human form. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar

Which part of that definition is giving you problems? Incarnation doesn't just mean that a person is reborn as another. It can be used as loosely as meaning to personify. Though mostly it comes down to a spirit being embodied in flesh.

As far as things go, Ama Nin and Wulf are both gods made flesh.

Which is why I think you don't understand the concept. 'cause Ama nin and wulf clearly qualify.

Okay, so explain it to me then. It's clear that I don't get it.

Well first off, You should take note of Prowelers comment on the word incarnation:


Avatars are merely when a god takes on a human/merish/what have you form even though they are normally without such physical trappings. They don't have to pull a Jesus and be born into the world via a virgin then spend a good number of years growing up.

God X wants to give Mortal 'Joe' a special ring. Problem: God X exists not only beyond where Mortal 'Joe' can exist, but also does not currently have a body that can interact with the special ring or with Mortal 'Joe'. So, God X decides to use some of his godly power to create a body that exists where Mortal 'Joe' exists and that can interact with him and the special ring. God X then infuses the body with his consciousness so that he can interact with mortals like Mortal 'Joe'. That body is his avatar. It is a manifestation of a God in a form capable of interacting with humans.

Manifestation is a word that better describes this event.

In a way, I can see why Tes96 is confused. The term "Avatar" has been appropriated for a number of different uses in the internet/gaming community. Are we talking about someone who embodies the Eight Virtues? Are we talking about the picture attached to someone's forum account? Are we talking about someone's character in an MMO?

The answer is "No." The term "Avatar" is MUCH older than the interwebs, or even Origin Games.

In Hindu mythology, when a god takes on a form of flesh, that person/animal/whatever is an "avatar". In the same way, Hawker, Ama, and Wulf are avatars of the gods Zenithar, Mara, and Talos/Tiber Septim/Wulfharth/Enatiomorph/Whatever. Maybe that last one is the source of confusion: the divine identity of Tiber Septim overlaps with, but is not the same as, the historical figure (Hjalti Earlybeard?) that established the Third Empire. Tiber Septim IS the Ninth Divine.

Wow, I never knew that. So if Julianos wants to intervene with mortal affairs, he can't do so because he doesn't exist as anything physical or real in the Mundus. But Julianos can, however, create a mortal (guy or girl) and empower it with his spirit. Does that mean that the mortal will act and think just like Julianos thinks? Will the mortal have the same prejudices that Julianos does?

And let me get this straight, Aedra cannot come to Nirn and interact with the mundus because they don't exist in that dimension. They only exist in Oblivion, right?

Aedric realms are not in Oblivion. Aedric realms are in the planets besides Nirn.

You mean, their 8 planets exist within the Mundus? But we cannot see them because of "mortal mental stress", which by definition, is the incapacity for mortals to comprehend what the planets are?
Then the daedric realms are in Oblivion, along with all the holes on the outer inner edge of it (stars and sun).

Perhaps perception of the cosmos is mortal mental stress because mortals wish to know what the heavens are, so they come up with explanations. That's my two cents.

But the Aedra do exist within the "space" of the mundus as planets, right?

That's my fault for typing wrong: I meant the planets NOT INCLUDING Nirn.

Now I'm confused again. Do the 8 planets that represent the 8 Aedra exist in Mundus or Oblivion?

From the Cosmology text:



Oblivion SURROUNDS the planets; the planets are NOT inside the dimension of Oblivion.

Well I never see any bubbles in space when I look up into the sky. But apparently, the people on tamriel can see the planets if they use a dwarven telescope? But they just look like big bubbles in the blackness of space?

They look like planets.