I am struggling to learn without any help (been waiting over a day for a question to be answered elsewhere) with this stuff. It would help if there were
YouTube How-To videos as reading the help file and TES IV:Positive alone gets monotonous, tiring, and just plain hard to understand.

I downloaded a QTP3 exe file which I then had it install to a dummy Data folder that I then 7z'pd to the Bash Installer folder.

Given the instructions included in the mod, which is only for OBMM where it talks about using Archive Invalidation, BSAs, Alteration, BSA Patcher, etc (all stuff still flying over my head), I wonder can I install with this method through WB?

I do have the OMOD 3.2 version as a fallback install method.

You might want to stick with OBMM until you're more comfortable with Wrye in general. I've been running Oblivion for years and I still use OBMM and don't use BAIN. I know a lot of people swear by it, but I found it just too hard to use. Now in my case it was partly because I was only using it to install mods that came as BAIN packages... Anyway I'm quite comfortable with OBMM and have gotten pretty good at detecting conflicts. Wrye and I are finally starting to get along after years of battles

Ironically, one of the things that BAIN doesn't do so well are texture replacers. I suggest sticking with OBMM and getting used to the tools it has. DO NOT use it for conflict detection. When you install something and it asks about displaying conflicts, answer Yes and have a look at the files that conflict and make a decision on which mod you want to override another. Installation order is very important. BAIN is apparently better at listing files in conflict, but having not used it myself, I don't know what form that takes. Don't run the conflict detector utility in OBMM - basically it doesn't work. I suggest you get used to using the Info option when you right-click on an omod - this tells you the files that make up a mod. You can use this to identify potential conflicts.

Don't worry about what QTP3 talks about in terms of archive invalidation and what-not. The information is outdated. Wrye will install a file called ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!.bsa for you when you install it. Your Oblivion.ini file should have a line in it like this:

SArchiveList=Oblivion - Meshes.bsa, ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!.bsa, Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa, Oblivion - Sounds.bsa, Oblivion - Voices1.bsa, Oblivion - Voices2.bsa, Oblivion - Misc.bsa

That's it! Archive Invalidation has been taken care of. OBMM also has a mechanism for doing archive invalidation that Tomlong prefers. If you are ready her guides, then that is the method she will tell you to use. You can do that instead if you like. That's part of the problem in trying to read all this material - everybody has their own opinion on how things should be done and you need to go through it all and choose the best one for you!

Lastly, if you are installing a mod that has been packaged for BAIN, it will need a directory called 'omod conversion data' for you to install it with OBMM. It it doesn't have that, then you will have to unzip the files to another location and repackage it for OBMM. This is what I do now. I have a directory called GameRepository where I put all the mods that need work of some sort and fix them up there. Then I create archives and create an omod from those archives. Just a suggestion - once again you will need to decide what works best for you.

My point about archive invalidation, BSA Redirection specifically, is to only use one tool to implement it. BAIN users might as well stick to BAIN's, but using OBMM's instead makes no difference. Just be sure to have it only checked in one.

Also, BAIN is great for installing texture replacers, and its data files conflict detection is superb. OBMM cannot hold a candle to that feature. Leave plugin conflict detection to your own brain paired with TES4Edit. Nothing else can do the task justice.

Why do you say BAIN has issues with texture replacers, andalaybay? No, it does not have shader-editing support, but that hardly has anything to do with most texture replacers...?


Edit: BAIN Mod Installation Projects - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ <--Psymon illustrates how BAIN kills OBMM with respect to installing (texture) replacers in the intro posts and through a number of posts in this thread.

I also suggest trying BAIN. It's not that difficult.

ITPaladin: I think you are going on the correct path - installing QTP3 in a dummy folder. What you need to make sure that all subfolders under Data are in a BAIN-friendly format. This would look like:
Data>meshes
Data>Textures
Data>Sound
Data>Music
Data>docs
Modname.esp
etc. (in fact, this is true for most simple mods, except QTP3 and other texture replacers will NOT have an esp/sound and music folders). For more complex mods, see Psymon's threads that Tomlong linked to above. Packaging mods is a chore now, but won't be if modders packed them in BAIN-friendly formats to begin with...

Select all the folders and files, and right-click>add to archive in 7-zip context menu. Rename the created archive as Mod Name vXXX.7z.

Once created, drag to the BASH installers folder. Then open up Wrye Bash, and you'll see the newly created package under the installers tab. Then you can install that by right-clicking on it.

This is an interesting topic, one I haven't yet studied or even thought about. Is the BSA Redirection you refer to the one that is checked by default when you right-click the heading of the Wrye Bash installers tab? And leaving it checked negates to need to ever run OBMM's Archive Invalidation utility, even when one installs OMODs? Must anything special be done with the Wrye Bash BSA Redirection tool, or does simply leaving it checked automatically insure it functions any time a new mods is installed or updated, or load/install order changes? What about after installing an OMOD? Will just opening Wrye Bash automatically apply redirection to the new OMOD (if needed)?

-Decrepit-

BSA a redirection is simply this:

1) Create a BSA with at least on file in it.
2) Register the BSA in the Oblivion.ini.

That is all that OBMM, Bash and ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated! do. The only benefit of the first two over the latter (or doing it yourself) is that they automatically re-register the redirection BSA, in the INI file, if need be (i.e., after it has been regenerated.)


Edit: BSAs and Archive Invalidation - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=bsas_and_archive_invalidation

A hopefully final set of questions from me on this subject. I know I've ran the OBMM Archive Invalidation utility a number of times since converting over to BAIN, not realizing Wrye Bash included an automatic tool to do the job. You stress several times that only one or the other of the two should be used, not both. Since I just discovered that my Wrye Bash BSA Redirection heading has been checked all this time, I've obviously been running both. Have I caused irreparable damage to my installation? If not is there some way to correct whatever harm might have been done? Or should I not worry about it and just not use OBMM Archive Invalidation any more (or uncheck the Wrye Bash option and use only OBMM for invalidation)?

Thanks again!

-Decrepit-

You have not done any damage to your save files or anything. Just uncheck BSA Redirection in one or the other.

I think this was the area I was stuck on, as the WB docs are basically not beginner-friendly IMO. They go on as if you already know some of what is being discussed. I was at the part of it talking about the end of the file needs to be -bain.7z or something, and about projects and archives ...ugh my brain goes TILT!

I BM that other thread and will read it later. So I was on the right track creating the 7z from the exe dump...

If you installed QTP3R, you would not have to do anything other than drop the archive into the Installers folder. It is simply packaged as a 7-zip archive, ready to go.

Yeah, if that's all there is to BAIN - I might even start using it Why-oh-why couldn't somebody have said that somewhere... I think my brain went TILT a while ago...

Also, TL, thanks for the nice brief summary on archive invalidation - I really haven't read one like that before. I'm serious and not being sarcastic. I understood the principle and always made sure I had the entry in my Oblivion ini file, but wasn't clear on the different mechanisms...

I wasn't installing the Redimed version, if that is what you mean, because I wanted to do the full-blown textures, given I have x2 system, 8 GB RAM (wish I could use more of it than what the patch gives), 512 card, W7 x64.
I do have that long entry in my Oblivion.ini so I guess I don't have to worry about setting anything in BAIN. I have the redirect checked.

Is there a way to get BAIN to install the obse plugins? I don't want to have to dig into the archive and drag it there.

QTP3 will eat up that 512 card fairly quickly. (I know from experience.) Even the Redimized version will use over 400MB VRAM. The Redimized version does not reduce the visual quality by much at all, but you will see when you start to run it with a good mod list. I recommend you save your CPU cycles, but that is up to you to decide. I, however, would not run that texture pack with less than 1GB VRAM. Your dual core, RAM and OS really do not matter, when it comes to comparing the different QTP versions, since they only differ in texture size. That is all video VRAM there. Yeah, you have the regular RAM space to catch any leaking, but talk about slowing things down...

will dl redimzd and try it. I am going slowly through your list to re-setup the game from what I had it at.

BAIN does not have support for installing OBSE plugins, but those are few in number. Plus, there is not really an extra benefit for installing them with BAIN since, once they are installed, you do not have to do much with them anymore. There are no file overlaps to worry about, they are updated infrequently, etc.

This is my list:

 Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is D000-45E4 Directory of C:\Games\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins08/23/2010  01:59 AM              .08/23/2010  01:59 AM              ..08/19/2010  07:05 PM              ComponentDLLs  <-- This is part of OSR.05/20/2010  07:55 PM           326,144 ConScribe.dll08/22/2010  06:40 PM               134 ConScribe.ini05/20/2010  07:57 PM           138,031 ConScribe_readme.rtf02/05/2009  07:49 AM           147,456 FastExit2.dll11/05/2009  11:00 PM           250,368 OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dll11/05/2009  12:55 AM           114,688 OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dlx08/23/2010  02:41 PM            14,550 OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.log05/20/2008  09:08 AM            46,080 OBSE_Elys_Uncapper.dll05/19/2008  01:53 PM               386 OBSE_Elys_Uncapper.ini08/23/2010  02:42 PM               324 Pluggy - possible CTD on loading save.log05/20/2008  08:52 AM             3,390 ReadMe ( Oblivion -Elys- Uncapper ).txt01/26/2010  05:07 AM           332,800 sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.dll08/20/2010  11:52 AM             2,470 sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.ini01/26/2010  05:04 AM            33,624 sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.txt08/21/2010  08:42 PM              Storage  <-- I stored some OBSE plugins here to remove them while testing, and I decided I might use it in the future.              14 File(s)      1,410,445 bytes               4 Dir(s)  377,265,881,088 bytes free

This list will probably only change if I decide to toss Pluggy out. Otherwise, I expect that this file list will remain the same for whatever is left of my Oblivion career.