Doesn't it seem like the map is like 80/20 in favor of ncr? There are ncr locations everywhere but very few legion places...

The map doesn't include the areas to the East controlled by the Legion.

Besides the above, the NCR is said to be larger, the difference is that everyone in Caesar's Legion fights and one Legionnaire accounts for several troopers.

That and the game would be awfully boring if half the map were just slave camps and CL settlements. A NCR controlled mojave desert gives us more freedom and portrays NCR's large but unorganized state.

@ grifman

well thats the problem.

It's just more NCR for you to kill, you ought to be happy!

Yes, well, there's only so much gratuitousLatin you can use in one game...

Besides, Legion territory would be dull. There would be no tribes, no towns, not even super mutants. Caesar's will is absolute east of the Colorado, so there really wouldn't be that much excitemen,t I think. At least the NCR are incompetent to allow you the opportunity to meet interesting NPCs and kill them.

Typical. <.<

I was hoping that the Legion wasn't included into the game just to provide an excuse for shoot-em-up players to have something new to do -- seeing as how you can play that way following NCR, too.

I think people are understating the depth which could exist in Legion territories. Sure, it could be swaths of boring little slave camps -- but let's get real, if the objective is to create a more 3D experience, then you have to realize that not everyone in the Legion is suave, insane, or both. There are going to be internal power struggles, work needing done not appropriate for Bob the Slave, and Normal Folk over there, too. I would chance to say that not everyone <3's slavery, and there might even be some really interesting play between crossing social boundries. MOST people are not mindless thugs, so even in a group like the Legion, you're going to have a lot of drama going on and a lot of people who don't see anything wrong with Legion rule -- and the NCR? You can bet your butt that not everyone is after making people warm and safe and ensuring freedom and justice for all.

There's also going to be neutral folk who would back the Legion because the NCR isn't exactly sunshine and puppies (or at least, it shouldn't be, despite how the game is trying to make you choose between "good" and "evil"). I'm a little irritated with the number of pro-NCR neutral towns. They've heard bad things about both groups, and the bottom line is, most neutral towns (like Goodsprings and Primm) want to be left alone and made safe. Safety is available from BOTH groups -- it just depends on which poison you want to take and what price you want to pay.

I could make a counter-argument and say that an NCR-dominated map would just be a large expanse of happy farmers and ranger outposts filled with draftees who are bored out of their minds.

You're right about the last part, which is why Fallout 2's southern map border ends at NCR. In response to the rest, I should point that Falloput's appeal is wandering about meeting interesting groups and resolvijg conflicts between them. Robots, mutans, cowboys, whacky 50s preconceptions... the trouble is that CL has NONE of these things and does not tolerate them. All traces of Pre-Legion identity, whether technological or cultural, are erased in favor of the Legion. You suggest there could be exceptions to the rule, but they would still only be exceptions in a dull, conformist region. Sure, you could make an interesting expansion pack out of the East, but really,the devs made the right choice by limiting our exposure to them in the main game.

My problem is, then, why are they included at all, as a main faction that you can support?

Why is the game not then centered on helping Mr. House or the NCR?

Adding the Legion in, without providing an equal amount of playtime that consists of more than just "OMG, another freaking NCR outpost to destroy", is just kind of half-assing it. I do realize that the game got pushed out a bit unpolished, and there might have been more planned, but if there is seriously way more play-time available for an anti-Legion character, then there should be some warning early in the game that there's nothing waiting for me to enjoy in the Great Hidden Beyond of the game if I decide to support them too early on or tick off the NCR very quickly (as can be the case if you foolishly and stupidly back the Powder Gangers before even reaching level 5). It's a very easy way to trash a gaming experience.

Don't get me wrong, I like cutting my way through swaths of my enemies and watching them run in terror. However, I don't want that to be the entirity of my gaming experience. If my only option after ticking off the NCR is to go straight to the main storyline since almost all side-quests get thrown out the window, that's not a good game design. (( A lot of quests I've run into so far require you to interact with NCR, enter NCR territory, or deal with towns where the NCR is directly stationed over or includes NCR-loving inhabitants. ))


All that said.... in response to a "conformist" society, I don't think anyone found Fallout 3 to be really boring, and it's almost a confirmist society by comparison. Take away the very few Mr. Handy's that were around, and most of the robots in the game were out to rip off your face. Super Mutants? You were lunch. Ghouls? Generally reviled, except for Underworld... and areas like that would naturally continue to persist in Legion territory, albeit under the radar.

I completely agree with what you're saying. CL should have been made more appealing IC somehow, in a way similar to Eden's broadcasts from FO3. Three of the four storylines have you supporting NCR, so it really does feel like a novelty faction for more action oriented players. (Though that kind of IS how the Legion likes it...)