Was Alessia a Kothringi?

Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:17 pm

Probably jumping to conclusions here, but http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/watergettinggirl.shtml features a protagonist call Perrif, named after the Paravania/St. Alessia. And this particular Perrif grew up in a "Kothri" village.

The first thing is that "Kothri" sounds awfully similar to "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kothringi". Are they the same? The story places Perrif's village near a river somewhere around the Topal Bay area, so that could be in Black Marsh, where the Kothringi are supposed to be from.

Now, I suppose it's fair to assume that parents give their children names belonging to different cultures, especially cultures with a strong significance to the parents. Look at how many (predominantly Catholic) Spanish-speakers name their sons Jes?s. Another example, is that I have a sister with a French name (we're of Irish/Scottish descent), and a Portuguese best friend with an Irish name.

So, being somewhat of a human folk-hero, many parents of the various human races in Tamriel have probably named their children after Alessia. There's probably Nordic Perrifs, Breton Perrifs and who knows, there's probably some Redguard Perrifs out there.
But... in Tamriel, it seems that members of the various races tend to keep their names within their own cultural group. You don't see many Great House Dunmer with Ashlander names, and I haven't seen a Breton with a Nordic or Imperial name before. And you never see any Bosmer named "Gortwog"!

So, with that in mind, how likely is it that St. Alessia was of Kothringi descent? I haven't seen anything that outright states what race she was, just that she was born in Cyrodiil, so it seems to be assumed she was a Nord or Imperial.
I know my theory isn't exactly solid, but I figured I'd throw it out there. :)
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Natalie J Webster
 
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Post » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:57 am

How many Redguards give a damn about the slave revolt? How many Bosmer think Orc emancipation is a good thing?

My name is a Biblical one, as my family are Christian, it would make little sense for them to name me Buddha or Mohammed, wouldn't it?

You're thinking in modern terms, where idiot people choose exotic names without any connection to their own culture. In the rest of the world, and in TES, this is not the case.

Allessia would have been a Nede, a proto-cyrodiilic, and I believe if she was a kothringi, she would have been one of their shiny scaled people. She probably just lived there.
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Elisha KIng
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:50 pm

Adabal-a
Perrif's original tribe is unknown, but she grew up in Sard, anon Sardarvar Leed, where the Ayleids herded in men from across all the Niben: kothri, nede, al-gemha, men-of-'kreath (though these were later known to be imported from the North), keptu, men-of-ge (who were eventually destroyed when the Flower King Nilichi made great sacrifice to an insect god named [lost]), al-hared, men-of-ket, others; but this was Cyrod, the heart of the imperatum saliache, where men knew no freedom, even to keep family, or choice of name except in secret, and so to their alien masters all of these designations were irrelevant.

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John N
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:16 pm

Allessia would have been a Nede, a proto-cyrodiilic, and I believe if she was a kothringi, she would have been one of their shiny scaled people. She probably just lived there.

Adabal-a

Well, there were Kothringi in Sard, and nobody remembers her actual tribe/subrace. However, if I recall correctly Kothringi are considered a subrace of argonians, and Allessia is a queen of humans.
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Sunny Under
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:32 pm

the crux of this question is "were the Kothringi argonian or human?" The most recent sources, namely the PGE3, name the Kothringi as a tribe of men. In fact, the only reference to them being argonian* is from 2920 (whose authenticity has been put up to debate recently).

there were once tribes of men - Kothringi, Orma, Yespest, Horwalli...

claiming the lives of the Kothringi tribesmen, the only humans to have persisted in the area for long.


Assuming the Kothri of the Adabal-a are the same as the Kothringi (or similar, divided geographically), we have even more proof of them being human.

Alessia could indeed have been a Kothringi (or, more accurately, a Kothri). However, thats missing the point. She is the Mother of Man, and hence she is from all tribes just as much as she is from none but the tribe of Man. Pinning down her origin makes her meaning as a universal savior of mankind moot.

*and then "argonian" is only implied via scaly skin. the Xal letters bring up an interesting possibility for crossbreeding between Kothri[ngi] tribesmen breeding with the natives, perhaps resulting in silver, scaly skin. As far as i could see, the scaly skin is only brought up in 2920, so they could be regular humans.
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Gavin boyce
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Probably jumping to conclusions here, but http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/watergettinggirl.shtml features a protagonist call Perrif, named after the Paravania/St. Alessia. And this particular Perrif grew up in a "Kothri" village.
Oh.

The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga:
...Now the Dragon's role here is more subtle, and existed really only in the fear of a little farm girl in the highlands of Newkreath...
...Anyhow, her name was Aless (her father was fond of the South, and Ald Cyrod, and knew the stories of their famous and ancient Queen)...

Was Alessia from men-of-'kreath?
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:15 pm

that Alessia is also not the real one, but simply a Nord girl named for her Savior. notice "(her father was fond of the South, and Ald Cyrod, and knew the stories of their famous and ancient Queen)" meaning her father knew the stories, liked them, and named his daughter for them
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:57 pm

that Alessia is also not the real one, but simply a Nord girl named for her Savior.
Of course she is not. So there the same arguments that she was Nord (or rather men-of-'kreath in Ald-Cyrod), as that she was Kothringi (or rather Kothri in Ald-Cyrod). So, Kothri is possible, but this is not a proof.

By the way, I thank that Kothringi are descendants of Kothri.
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Ice Fire
 
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