Crime and Punishment

Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:35 pm

The elder scrolls games seem to hold a lax system of punishment on crime. Murder a man, pay x gold or spend x days in prison. From what i've seen in modern portrayls of medival life, punishments can range from hanging someone for stealing from a noble, to a joyful ride on the rack for treachery. Readers of The REAL Barenziah will see that breaking into the commamdant's office warrants a drawn-and-quartering. So, my question: what is a more reasonable list of crime and punishment.
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Joanne
 
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Post » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:14 am

There are definitely a lot of in-game references to certain crimes carrying a death penalty - for example, trafficking in dwemer artifacts is theoretically a capital crime. Pretty much any action that threatens the Empire's dominance seems to carry the death penalty; crimes against fellow citizens are what can be paid off with money or jail time.

However, MURDER is very clearly NOT a capital crime even in the lore. The Morag Tong are "legal" murderers because they pay the fine for killing before doing it.

While this may not seem a very "just" set of laws, it is a pretty efficient use of the Legion's resources. All crimes benefit the state because of the fines (or labor) that occur when the culprit is nailed. It's basically a "sin tax" taken one step further.
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Sammie LM
 
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Post » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:59 am

On top of what Tamalak said, do not confuse TES world with medieval times. The imperials are based on the Romans and TES world as a whole is not best compared to medieval times, but rather the Roman Empire. Even then, no time period in our world compares well to TES world, but the Roman Empire would be the closest to TES world.
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Jason White
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:09 pm

They probably get off with a crucifixion for a first offense.

I mean, it could be worse. Could be stabbed.
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Riky Carrasco
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:03 pm

The Morag is only legal in Morrowind. And as far as I know they're not paying a fine in advance. They're aloowed to commit murders, provided those murders are linked with Houses Wars (the one-upmanship game wher the dunmer Houses try to imporve ro securetheir relative positions).
With the amount of rivlary running in dunmer society, the Morag Tong is viewed as a 'safety valve' that prevent full blown wars with their attendant destructions. Even a swath of mruders is far less damaging to society as a whole than a civil war.

On a more historical note, the notion of getting fined for a murder has real wolrd precedents - the germanic wergeld was a pyament from the family of the murderer to the family of the victim. It was intended to compensate for the loss and extinguished legal action. The victim's relatives could refuse the wergled and go for vengeance instead, but it was one or the other.
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Nina Mccormick
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:19 pm

There are definitely a lot of in-game references to certain crimes carrying a death penalty - for example, trafficking in dwemer artifacts is theoretically a capital crime. Pretty much any action that threatens the Empire's dominance seems to carry the death penalty; crimes against fellow citizens are what can be paid off with money or jail time.

However, MURDER is very clearly NOT a capital crime even in the lore. The Morag Tong are "legal" murderers because they pay the fine for killing before doing it.

While this may not seem a very "just" set of laws, it is a pretty efficient use of the Legion's resources. All crimes benefit the state because of the fines (or labor) that occur when the culprit is nailed. It's basically a "sin tax" taken one step further.


Could you possibly elaborate on "trafficking" dwemer artifacts? Would that mean that it is illegal for adventurers to scavenge ruins and sell random crap?
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:17 am

Could you possibly elaborate on "trafficking" dwemer artifacts? Would that mean that it is illegal for adventurers to scavenge ruins and sell random crap?


All dwemer artifacts are the property of the empire. Taking any from ruins is stealing from the empire.
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Dawn Farrell
 
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Post » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:34 am

Thank you Numidium.
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Jason Rice
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:50 pm

All dwemer artifacts are the property of the empire. Taking any from ruins is stealing from the empire.


So how is it you can sell Dwemer items in Morrowind and Armor in Oblivion?
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Jack Moves
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:04 pm

Presumably because it's already been exported (legitimately or illegitimate).
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Nathan Barker
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:53 pm

The Tamriel legal system has its basis in the civilized, reasonable credo uttered by the prophet Marukh in the first era: "All are guilty until they have proven themselves innocent." Were truer word ever spoke?


hehe...


http://www.imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b025_legalbasic.shtml
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:58 pm

The elder scrolls games seem to hold a lax system of punishment on crime. Murder a man, pay x gold or spend x days in prison. From what i've seen in modern portrayls of medival life...

But the punishment for murder in middle ages was usually light - few weeks in jail.
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louise tagg
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:36 pm

So how is it you can sell Dwemer items in Morrowind


Because the Imperials are pretty lax on this particular law given all the other trouble in Morrowind and most merchants are eager for lucrative dealing in dwemer relics.

and Armor in Oblivion?


Not sure if the laws are local to Morrowind (since that place is the most rich in Dwemer ruins) or maintained in Oblivion. Oblivion doesn't really touch any interesting political or legal issues.
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:27 pm

Thanks for the answers, guys.
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:48 pm

I like that one :


Smuggling
Any act of bringing in, taking out, teleporting, or causing to be brought in, taken out, or teleported an object considered illegal or, if not illegal, requiring an import or export tax which is not paid. The punishment for this crime may include a fine or incarceration, or a fine and incarceration, and will include confiscation of the offensive or illegal object. It may also include, but not be restricted to, execution or banishment, or execution and banishment.


I suppose it means you're excuted and then the body sent somewhere else for getting disposed of. It's also funny that smuggling is the only rime carrying a death sentence. It seems the Empire doesn't take it kindly to tax evasion. Beware the taxmen...

Edit : oups I didn't notice that treason carried a death sentence too. So beware of taxes and plitics, the two things that can get you killed...
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:00 pm

Not sure if the laws are local to Morrowind (since that place is the most rich in Dwemer ruins) or maintained in Oblivion. Oblivion doesn't really touch any interesting political or legal issues.

Imperial Law is enforced in both provinces, although because of the terms of the Armistice, the Dunmer still make their own laws. All of the guards enforce Imperial Law, though, at least to a degree.
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Haley Cooper
 
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