Wow first post in another Beth forum outside TES general in years

Anyway, I just recently had a little thought. As I recall there have been a lot of other Nerevarine candidates which all turned out false in the end. It's mostly assumed they are dead, however I had another thought.
Throughout the main game you encountered Dagoth Urs followers including other Dagoths. However I asked myself "wait a second, we had other people who appeared to be the Nerevarine and I doubt Dagoth Ur will make anyone an ascended follower" and got to a conclusion.

A lot of the other Dagoths are actually previous Nerevarine candidates.

They all got to a point where they contracted Corprus and for them it SEEMED like they would be affected less by the disease or in some cases like they where not affected at all. However, unknowing to them it still slowly worked in their bodies, somehow it just didn't mutate them as fast as other people.
Once they managed to make it close to Ur he simply "talked" to them and managed to convince them of his side. By that time they probably already fought with pains of the mutations and with Urs divine powers he could make the pain go away (or at least make it feel like that) which is a easy way to get them on his side. Plus he could control the mutation and make them ascend instead of become horrible out of control mutations.

If you look at the other Dagoths they all seem to be Dunmer, since Urs plan was to "liberate" Morrowind of outlanders this, plus the pains of the mutations, must have been rather convincing to them.

This could also explain how Sunder and Keeing got in Dagoth Urs hands, they where originally simply given to the Nerevarine candidates and couldn't be retrieved anymore.


Now I don't remember all details anymore but this is a little theory and, if you think of it, a bit disturbing as those guys you kill where your predecessors.

:ninja:

Hmm, sounds interesting, but how do you explain the Failed Incarnates, then? Aside from being ethereal, they look normal to me.

Those are the ones that DID die, nobody said that all of them are there.
And even if somebody claimed that it could easily be a lie not to discourage you. After all which story makes you more confident to continue and NOT join the enemy, "every single one held on to it and kept fighting till the end" or "Well there are some who thought Urs plans sound good but it's better you don't listen to those". Simply keeping it a secret too keep up morale.

If I remember correctly, anyone that fail'd to become a Nerevarine are bounded to the Cavern of the Incarnate. Also worth mentioning that these are basically Azura's choosing as well. She will view those that have the potential of becoming one and not get backstab along the way.

Dagoth Urs got his hand on Sunder and Keening recently (And when I mean recently, I mean 10 years before ingame Morrowind happens) because the "Living Gods" were pathetically weak when they try to fight Dagoth Urs with the weapons. They lost the battle, drop the weapons, and retreat.

There you go, Mr. Kay. Looks like your invented lore failed.
You forgot about one key thing: Azura.
You fail as the Nerevar, you're destined to chill with her.
I hope they brought some reading material with them. Something tells me that Azura's not much of a party animal.

Isn't that "you fail, you DIE, you're destined to Azura"?
Because the Dagoths quite clearly aren't dead and the heart of Lorkan gives mortals the same powers as gods (or Daedra es quite evident from some books). So if they say "I join Dagoth Ur" he could very well separate them from Azuras bonding.

And WOW, whats with the "INVENTED LORE" comment? I just had a thought on that and decided to debate it and you throw that at me like i try to overturn the bases of TES!

Yes, these fail'd Nerevarine are place in the Cavern of the Incarnate as examples of why they fail at their destiny. Heck, they do not even have worship to Azura to become a potential.


I would say those Dagoths are just high rank / hardcoe Cultist that Dagoth Ur plays favor with due to their loyalty. And ya comparing a power of wannabe god that depends on the heart to be strong to that of a Daedric Prince, which have a power of god itself (from doing things for Lulz to changing a WHOLE race to their will, with Orcs and Dunmers as prime examples).

Seeing how Vivec, one of those Wannabe gods, deals with the Daedra i don't think it's THAT far off to assume the heart gives them power similar to the Daedra.

But ok i'm willing to accept the theory is wrong but i haven't really had a 100% clue in that direction really

I'm going to try this in Lore, because it concerns the nature of the Ash Vampires. It's too spoiler-y for Morrowind General.

It's said that the Ash Vampires are Voryn Dagoth's (Dagoth Ur's) brothers. Since it doesn't say how they came to be his brothers, or what it means to be his brothers, the idea that they're candidate Nerevarines who accepted Dagoth Ur's invitation and came to Red Mountain in peace is a plausible, if far-out, one.

Ahh ok, sorry i overlooked the Lore forum, did look for it but still managed to miss it :blink:

Here is some info for you, in addition to Dogsbodys post:
"The greatest, most feared of Dagoth Ur's servants are the ash ghoul, the ascended sleeper, and the ash vampire. Chief among his servants are his seven brothers, the ash vampires, powerful heartwights and cunning sorcerers of old. These creatures appear to die, but always are revived at the Heart. Somehow Dagoth Ur has conferred some portion of his immortality upon them."

and

"The kinsmen of Lord Dagoth have been called 'ash vampires' by the ignorant, but they are not vampire in any way. They are wise and powerful, long-lived and masterful in sorcery -- but they are ageless, immortal wizards, like all of Lord Dagoth's kin -- and not vampires."

(From: Morrowind Dialogue)

I always thought that they were the original counclors of house dagoth, and when the ouse got messed up Dagothe Ur was all like, "come with me if you want to live...for ever"


I'd agree to that.

I assume they're either literally Voryn Dagoth's blood-brothers or oath-brothers from House Dagoth, meaning high ranking Councilmen who survived the War on Red Mountain to ascend.

I like the idea that they are failed incarnates who took his offer of friendship. Its pretty clear they're old House oath-brothers, though.