Marriage / Funerals etc

Post » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:43 pm

I was wondering, is there any lore behind marriages in the ES universe? Do couples go to a temple? I know that in Morrowind (the game) people will get married and women will take on their husband's name. Widow Vabdas is an example.
I couldn't find anything related to it on the UESP.

And what about Funerals / Cremations and such?

In my fan-fic I had a cremation ceremony but found myself without Lore to guide me in it so I made it up. If there's no Lore to marriage either I will end up having to make that myself as well.
User avatar
djimi
 
Posts: 3519
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:44 am

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:42 am

I vaguely recall something about the married couple getting tattoos...? I forget which race does that, or if it is even true, and not speculation posted in a thread similar to this one many months ago. >.<

As for funerary rights:
Imperials seems to bury their dead
Bosmer eat their dead
I forget who cremates their dead
User avatar
Elisabete Gaspar
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:15 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:02 am

Bosmer eat their dead


lolWUT???? :blink:

Do you have a source for that?
User avatar
Josephine Gowing
 
Posts: 3545
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:41 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:02 am

I vaguely recall something about the married couple getting tattoos...? I forget which race does that, or if it is even true, and not speculation posted in a thread similar to this one many months ago. >.<

As for funerary rights:
Imperials seems to bury their dead
Bosmer eat their dead
I forget who cremates their dead


It would appear Dunmer cremate a great deal of their dead. The Ashlanders mummify their dead. The Dunmer Temple turned some bodies into tomb guardians, which was Temple approved necromancy.

Couples in Imperial, Breton and Altmer society are married in the churches and chapels. In Dunmer society they were married at the Temple. I'm not certain how marriage works in Hammerfell, but I would imagine it is a religious ceremony of some sort. As for the other cultures I don't have a clue. A Nord in Bruma mentions that his mate is "my woman, Nord style." I'm guessing in Skyrim marriage is less an official or religious act. Argonian mating habits are obscure. Khajiit operate in an extended family, gypsy camp, nomadic society and polygamy may or may not play a part. I don't know if Orcs mate for life in their home country of Orsinium but it's probable that being civilized and intelligent, some of them do. As for Bosmer..who cares anyway? :P
User avatar
Romy Welsch
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:36 pm

Post » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:28 pm

It would appear Dunmer cremate a great deal of their dead. The Ashlanders mummify their dead. The Dunmer Temple turned some bodies into tomb guardians, which was Temple approved necromancy.

I am quite certain Dunmer cremate all their dead. It's the only reason for explaining the ash pits and all the urns you find in Ancestral tombs.
Tomb gaurdians? As in Skeletal Champions/Bonewalkers etc?

In Dunmer society they were married at the Temple.

I'll assume a Tribunal priest will lead the ceremony. Anything else? Peculiarities or maybe special vows? What about someone giving away the bride/groom and witnesses (best man)? I know it sounds trivial but I like to adress such trivial details.
User avatar
Manny(BAKE)
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:14 am

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:43 am

lolWUT???? :blink:

Do you have a source for that?

They eat their dead enemies (cannibalism), but I'm actually not 100% sure if they eat dead family members.

While few Bosmer perform Arkay's rituals when burying the dead, the more primitive Bosmer still practice cannibalism upon their enemies, which reduces the number of available corpses. As would be expected from such a backwards people, they have an intolerance of Necromancy that goes beyond all reason. Many Necromancers who practice our Arts in Valenwood become "one with the trees" themselves.
- http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/corpse_preparation.shtml

Bosmer who uphold the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Green_Pact (as in, probably all the ones in Valenwood; not sure about migrants) strictly eat meat. This part is known as the Meat Mandate. The PGE: Aldmeri Dominion has a few choice words:
Valenwood was claimed as a wasteland province of the Second Empire, and its geography is partially described in several Imperial surveys. Valenwood is noteworthy in that it has no cities or townships built by the Wood Elves themselves. Their strict "Green Pact" prohibits the use of wood or other vegetable derivatives as building materials, and they are too improvident to learn the use of stone. The Wood Elves permitted a few roads to be built by the Second Empire, but neglect their maintenance, as the Bosmer do not need roads to move easily through the thickest forest; these roads would be now overgrown were it not for the High Elves of the Thalmor, who have repaired and widened them for rapid passage of their arms to and from the coast. Much of the region is impenetrable mangrove and coastal rain forest, with few grasslands or glade areas until further north near the Strident Coast. Many of the human trading posts established by the Second Empire have been abandoned or claimed by the beastfolk - Centaurs, Orcs, and Imga - that share the forests with the Bosmer tribes. Humans, in general, have learned not to intrude in the forests of Valenwood. While they once depended entirely on the annual Stridmeet caravans of the Colovian West, the Wood Elves now rely entirely on the sea piracy of the Dominion for whatever they require from the outside world.

Concerning the Wood Elves as a people, we must again turn to the prolific Eric of Guis. After a grateful dismissal from the Court of Alinor, he stayed with the Bosmer for a time at the capital city of Falinesti, during its summer migration. As the city strode along the coastal region of the Cape, Eric of Guis recorded much about Valenwood culture:

"No less abhorrent are the Bosmer than their kin at Summerset, but they are far more cooperative. The Wood Elves love the current human activity because it makes them feel important.

"They are exclusively and religiously carnivorous. They cannot, or will not, eat anything that is plant-based. They eat game, beastfolk, each other, or meats imported from other regions. This part of the Green Pact is known as the Meat Mandate, and, among its other rules, it requires that a fallen enemy must be eaten completely before three days pass. The family members of the warrior that slew the enemy may help him with his meal. Needless to say, the Wood Elves do not like to engage in large battles if they have not undergone a suitable starvation period.

"Though they are excellent archers, the Green Pact forces their bowyers and fletchers to use bone or similar materials, or to buy bows and arrows from other cultures. The use of woodcrafts created by another race is not forbidden, nor is the sale of their own Valenwood timber as long as it is collected by a non-Bosmeri.

"The Wood Elves, of course, cannot smoke anything of a vegetable nature. Bone pipes are common, however, and are filled with caterpillars or tree grubs.

"For a brief time the Colovian armies used Wood Elf archers, as in the War of Rihad two years past. The Bosmer proved to be too undisciplined and prone to desertion for further use. They would sometimes walk into the shade of a single tree and vanish. Their forest-coupling skills are remarkable. The title of their most famous poem, the Meh Ayleidion, means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding."

"At the trading posts of the Empire, the Wood Elves become very happy. Some creations of carpentry delight them to no end. Most of it has never occurred to them. They bring their own trade items: hides, river pearls, finger-bone charms made from the still-magically-charged hands of their dead wizards. They often buy woodcrafts that they have no use for or whose use they never bother to find out. Some of the bravest Wood Elven warriors use wagon wheels as shields, or as (they think) impressive headgear.

Wood Elves of the Wild Hunt, 1e369, still about in Valenwood -- Willy the Bitten returned to haunt Silvenar Grove, While King Dead Wolf-Deer stalks the Lympan March.

"While sometimes amusing, the Bosmer have a bestial side. They can resort to animal shapes if they need to, or water. Their most dreaded transformation is the Wild Hunt, which killed King Borgas for the "iniquities" of his Alessian faith. The Wild Hunt is a pack of shifting forest-demons and animal-gods, thousands strong, which sweeps through the countryside killing everything its path. The Wood Elves do not like to talk about the Hunt, and I gather they do not feel proud of this power at all-Gomini, my Bosmer companion of late, tells me that the Hunt is used for justice, but that also, "every monster in the world that has ever been comes from a previous Hunt. Those Bosmer that go Wild, they do not return.""


The traveler is advised to avoid the lands of the Aldmeri Dominion. Though the Thalmor have representatives at the Imperial City, and the Cyrodilic Grand Vizier Zurin Arctus is meeting with the King of Alinor, contact with the Bosmer and Altmer are often disagreeable to the common Imperial citizen. Avoid their books and magic. Wear the permitted weaponry when near their borders. If you are manly and able, apply for service in the Legions.

User avatar
RAww DInsaww
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:47 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:30 am

I am quite certain Dunmer cremate all their dead. It's the only reason for explaining the ash pits and all the urns you find in Ancestral tombs.
Tomb gaurdians? As in Skeletal Champions/Bonewalkers etc?


Check out some of the descriptions of various Morrowind http://www.imperial-library.info/zeph/TES_Tre_3.shtml#b. This is actual in game dialogue strongly suggesting that the Bonelords and Bonewalkers are purposely animated to guard tombs from robbers.


The Ghost Fence was actually powered by Dunmer souls when they died - another example of Temple necromancy, although all that is obviously now a thing of the past. A cataclysmic event after the events of Morrowind and Oblivion forced a mass exodus of the Dunmer. Their religion and old ways of living and burying their dead are more of a question mark than a certainty now. We don't know how their society and views will have changed by the next game.

I'll assume a Tribunal priest will lead the ceremony. Anything else? Peculiarities or maybe special vows? What about someone giving away the bride/groom and witnesses (best man)? I know it sounds trivial but I like to adress such trivial details.


I know for a fact that in Tamriel there is a such a thing as a wedding dowry. This appears several times in Imperial Library search results. I'm not sure about special vows or giving one's daughter away although it sounds familiar. Maybe someone else will remember an instance of character dialogue or something confirming it.
User avatar
Britta Gronkowski
 
Posts: 3475
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:14 pm

Post » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:33 pm

Thank you! That's been a big help.
User avatar
Jason Wolf
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:30 am

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:57 am

I'm sorry, I can't be bothered finding sources for this, but Dunmer definately like to keep the bones of their dead relatives around. The Great Houses used to have their own private Ghost-Fences made from the bones of their important officials and heroes, but that ended when the big Ghost-Fence had to be built. Before that, even private homes had Ghost-Fences, and many corpses were sent to the necropolis cities for interment, the biggest, most well-known, and most sought after being Necrom. I believe the necropolis cities were run by House Indoril.
Obviously, it became illegall for private or House Ghost-Fences to be built when the Temple needed all the sacred hero-bones it could get to built the Ghost-Fence to hold back Dagoth Ur.
It seems logical that Dunmer would revert to the practice of building private Ghost-Fences with the big one gone, and Necrom surely survived Landfall.
I also believe that Dunmer not worthy of donating their bones to Ghost-Fences were created, and also that many Dunmer would wear small bones from dead relatives, like knuckle bones, and amulets and charms.
User avatar
Dylan Markese
 
Posts: 3513
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:58 am

Post » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:05 pm

I am quite certain Dunmer cremate all their dead.

In one of the MQ missions for Morrowind, you, go to the tombs of one of the ashlander tribes. Its quite clear that a great deal of mummified corpses are present.
User avatar
Cameron Wood
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:41 am

From what Ive gathered, Aslanders have very different customs than Great House Dunmeri so that's not really a comparison, I think. Useful none-the-less. :icecream:
Continuing to weddings; would there be standard vows as is custom in our world? Y'know, the 'I do,' thing?
User avatar
Gavin Roberts
 
Posts: 3335
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:14 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:09 am

In one of the MQ missions for Morrowind, you, go to the tombs of one of the ashlander tribes. Its quite clear that a great deal of mummified corpses are present.


http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Urshilaku_Burial_Caverns

The place has dozens of mummies. Very unique and unforgettable tomb, and it gives us an idea of how Ashlander customs differ from House Dunmer customs.
User avatar
stevie trent
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:33 pm

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:31 am

Orcish wedding customs are described here, though the description may be more fanciful than factual: http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/wraithswedding.shtml

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/marobar.shtml#10 is clearly nothing to do with the Dwemer, more likely a retelling of a popular story.

Formal arranged marriages are known among all classes, and they are contracted for political reasons among the nobility and royalty:
http://www.imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b100_complete_edward.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/wolf_queen.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/madness_pelagius.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/last_scabbard_of_akrash.shtml

The Dunmer solemnize marriages with significant rituals, though the form these take is not described: "A member brought into the House through marriage binds himself through ritual and oath into the clan, and gains communication and benefits from the clan's ancestors" (http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/ancestor.shtml)

And, possibly answering the question of whether Argonians are interfertile with Men, the Argonian Sheen-in-Glade married Csaran, Count Vitharn, and bore him a son: http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/sebookfallofvitharn.shtml, though it must be admitted that things foreign to Tamriel may occur in the Shivering Isles.
User avatar
Irmacuba
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:54 am

Post » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:30 am

Do couples go to a temple?

Many times as a random quest from a merchants in Daggerfall. He tells the PC to escort him to get his love of his life away from a bad guy and go to the temple that the merchant mention just to get married with the girl.
User avatar
hannah sillery
 
Posts: 3354
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:13 pm


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion