I have a partially built mod I have been sitting on for a couple of years now that involves Secunda ... in fact it takes place on Secunda.

I haven't finished it because I was told by friends that it busted lore to much ..... I don't agree with this & I think it still fits within lore boundaries.

I have decided to finish it & release it & My point in posting here is to get a feel on how it will be received.

I'm prepare for some to think it breaks lore but as I said I don't see it .... unless I missed some "official" notes somewhere about the moons not being a "real" place.


Any & all opinions welcome .... just don't expect to change My mind unless there is some hard evidence that it bust lore.

hmm, i thought there was accounts of imperial mananauts landing on the moons. there wasn't anything remarkable about them, kinda like visiting some of the daedric realms.

From the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/cosmology.shtml
"What are Masser and Secunda?

Masser and Secunda ('Jone' and 'Jode' in the Ehlnofex), the moons of Nirn, are the attendant spirits of the mortal plane. They are like the mortal plane in that they are temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality; in fact of this, the moons are dead and died long ago. The moons used to be pure white and featureless, but today their 'skin' is decaying and withering away. Their planes are likewise dying. Mortals perceive this as the moons being spheres with patches of their 'surfaces' completely eaten away; as the moons spin, they seem to become slivers or ragged crescents. These are not caused by shadows, because you can see stars through the black patches of the lunar spheres."

From http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml#16
"So to quiet his mind the Hortator chose from the Fight Racks an axe. He named it and moved on to the first moon.

There, Nerevar was greeted by the Parliament of Craters, who knew him by title and resented his presence, for he was to be a ruling king of earth and this was the lunar realm. They shifted around him in a pattern of entrapment.

'The moon does not recognize crowns or scepters,' they said, 'nor the representatives of kingdoms below, lion or serpent or mathematician. We are the graves of those that have migrated and become ancient countries. We seek no Queens or thrones. Your appearance is decidedly solar, which is to say a library of stolen ideas. We are neither tear nor sorrow. Our revolution succeeded in the manner that is was written. You are the Hortator and unwelcome here.'"

Also have a look at the http://www.imperial-library.info/astro/#C1 section.


Go for it!

Besides all the info from the books in the TES games .... How much of the imperial library is Official & how much is just opinion?

Anybody know?

Unless you find it in the "Forum Scholars Guild" section then it is official, and even if you find it that section chances are that its right as the articles have to be approved to be admitted... some will tell you that the "Obscure Texts" are not official, those are texts written by devs that aren't included in-game, its up to you how you view them but most people here take them as being just as official as everything else.

Let me phrase the question differently: How much is fact, and how much is myth/legend?

Considering it was from Vivec's Sermons, I'd say a lot of it is metaphorical. But that's my opinion.

fact is subjective, and myth is often fact

more clearly, as long as its not directly contradicted by something else or directly stated to be fiction it can be taken as fact. even myths and legends fit into this category. there are a few texts which offer only part of the truth or have strong bias, and some which have been retconed.

the way i see it: lore should never prevent you from releasing a mod. a moon mod is iffy in lore terms, but its quality, not lore, that matters in mods.

Cyrus the Restless went on Masser, and it is said that the Imperial mananauts had ambitious plans for a Secundan moon base.

Nicely put .... mostly myth & legend that is how I look at it.

The only thing I'm still undecided on is whether there will be air or not.

The unfinished mod as it stands is airless & there is a base of sorts .... but now I'm leaning towards there being air because it would open up a lot of modding possibilities.

I think I have a way to make an interior feel like an exterior ...as in no walls or barriers like Tribunal has ... still testing it though.

Well, like somebody said, myth and fact are often the same thing. Bear in mind that there is no such thing as outer space or a vacuum in the world of the Elder Scrolls -- there are the Divines, which we perceive as planets, and then there is Oblivion/the Princes, which we perceive as a void surrounding the planets and stars (holes through which Aedra escaped being svcked into the creation along with the Sun, Magnus). Each god-planet is infinite, as is the Oblivion surrounding it; they are infinities upon infinities upon infinities wrapped around one another inexorably, which is obviously impossible to comprehend entirely and so is perceived my mortals as the night sky.

So there probably is air on Secunda, or Masser, or whatever moon you're doing. After all, all it is is half the body of a dead god.

By the way, does the infinite-size thing apply to the moons? I think so but I may be wrong.

This is the very part I view as myth ... Just like our real life myths & realities ...

Usually it's easier to understand the lore if you can understand the perspective it was made from. In this case the nature of the world itself is myth. This could be argued through the uncanny resemblances in the Monomyth, the very excistence of Tonal Architecture, manteling and other myth making tools.

With that in mind, a cosmology resembling a rather archaic and mythical view of the heavens is quite probably accurate. It's not as if the planets are observed to follow any sort of plausible orbit.

What he said. So, in other words, the point is that the laws of physics in Tamriel DO operate in the way that our real-world ancients might have thought they did, which means that they're subject to myth and so you can get all these cool things like mushroom towers and Romanesque moon bases.

But you can do whatever you want with your mod, even if an NPC with those descriptions would make it somewhat cooler. In any case, good luck -- I love your retextures!

That's the science. A myth is a cultural belief, whereas the Cosmology we know about is a theory just like real life models of astronomy and astrophysics.

Any updates on this, Darknut?
I hope you're still considering on completing this.

Oops, Double post.

I get the feeling that "Lore-friendly" for mods generally means "filling in the blanks of Lore" rather than "extending the boundaries of Lore".

The moon mod sounds like an interesting idea, provided it's executed with enough attention to details. (Anyway, where are the screenshots?).

Here's a good idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxB2x9QzXb0&feature=related

It can also mean: "Filling in what's perceived as a blank." I've seen mods before that try to fill in a blank somewhere, when in reality, there was never a blank in the first place and the modder simply didn't know about the lore that would have filled the perceived blank.

Telling people your own truth about fantsy world myth will never be lore friendly, there are lots of opinions, and because it isn't official lore, lots of people will not agree. Not that I don't like your project, just saying, if you want to make it totally lore friendly.

There is a massive vacum, The areas inbetween the 8 spokes of the wheel and the 16 gaps, as while as aurbis. Oblivion is a void, but when you reach a daedric plane you are entering a "planet"

Infinite size does apply to the moon, as it does to all of the Aedric/Daecric realms. Nirn is finite because it was infinities tearing finite peices of themselves off.

Some ingame text I can't fin currently describes how one infinity can be bigger than another.

Cosmology, probably.