Hey Kagrenac, you're doing it wrong!

Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:49 am

Okay, so it's late at night, and this post might not be entirely coherent, so apologies in advance. I'll clear up things if people ask, but hopefully this will be pretty straightforward. :)

So, I've been thinking about the Tsaesci, and their golden skin and the men and dragons they ate. I think they're all connected.

Here are my proposals:

1. First things first, the Tsaesci ate (ie enslaved or became) the Red Dragons of Akavir. The Red Dragon appears on the Imperial crest, and seems to be associated with Akatosh. Therefore, I propose, that the Red Dragon the Tsaesci became was none other than Akatosh, and is why the Ka Po Tun hate them so much. They want to do the same thing, but only Tosh Raka has managed it so far.
Also probably why the Tsaesci are serpent-like. It's some kind of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros-type thing.

2. Lorkhan and Akatosh are one and the same. So in order to mantle Akatosh fully, they had to mantle Lorkan as well- who's also known as Shezarr, the god of man. How better to embody the god of mankind, than by becoming human?

3. The Dwarves were on the right track, using the heart of Lorkhan to become the golden skin of Numidium, but I believe they had the process in reverse. Hence why Numidium doesn't really do anything, and the Dwemer ceased to be. See, the humans of Akavir were eaten by the Tsaesci, that is, literally consumed. No trace of them remains, as they became the golden skin of the Tsaesci. The Tsaesci used humanity as a substitute for Lorkhan/Shezarr, as I believe humanity holds some of his power, in a way (as the god of man, he is man- like how Kynareth is the wind).

4. See, the Dwemer should have used their own bodies in place of Numidium, and instead of just using the heart as a means to an end, they should have used it to become their golden skin, instead of being the skin themselves.

So, that's my theory. The Tsaesci are all Lorkhan, and they managed to not un-make themselves in the process.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need sleep.
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:54 am

2. Lorkhan and Akatosh are one and the same. So in order to mantle Akatosh fully, they had to mantle Lorkan as well- who's also known as Shezarr, the god of man. How better to embody the god of mankind, than by becoming human?


As I understand it, although Lorkhan and Akatosh are two of the same, they are not exactly the same. And one does not need to mantle both Lorkhan's aspects and Akatosh's in order to mantle either of them fully - these two entities are separate. Two minds, one being. The two minds are the separate entities that one would mantle.
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:19 pm

As I understand it, although Lorkhan and Akatosh are two of the same, they are not exactly the same. And one does not need to mantle both Lorkhan's aspects and Akatosh's in order to mantle either of them fully - these two entities are separate. Two minds, one being. The two minds are the separate entities that one would mantle.


True, true.

Well then... perhaps we should just disregard the Akatosh angle?

I mean, if the Ka Po Tun are the Akatosh-wannabes, and the Tsaesci just have Lorkhan on his own, then that could still explain their animosity towards one another.

Still doesn't explain the eating of the Red Dragons, though. Hmm.
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danni Marchant
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:44 pm

My gut feeling says that you're intuiting it wrong. Unfortunately, the most I can offer you is that we don't know if the Tsaesci are related philosophically/genetically or not to the Aldmer. If they aren't then chances are likely that they don't have the same metaphysical goals as the elves. If "We Ate It To Become It" is any indication, I'd almost suggest that they want to destroy the Aedra and replace them with themselves.
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Jeremy Kenney
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:13 pm

My gut feeling says that you're intuiting it wrong. Unfortunately, the most I can offer you is that we don't know if the Tsaesci are related philosophically/genetically or not to the Aldmer. If they aren't then chances are likely that they don't have the same metaphysical goals as the elves. If "We Ate It To Become It" is any indication, I'd almost suggest that they want to destroy the Aedra and replace them with themselves.


haha, kinda like the tribunal
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Isabella X
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:38 pm

You make the assumption that the Dwemer and your hypothetical Tsaesci are striving for the same thing. That is your first error, even if you were right about the Tsaesci. You have them trying to mantle Akatosh/Lorkhan; the Dwemer were trying to do no such thing. It can't follow that the Dwemer did it wrong when that's not even what they were trying to do.

Also, becoming human doesn't cause you to embody the god of man (not to mention it wouldn't help with mantling) anymore than becoming a goat would cause you to embody the god of goats - not to mention that "god of man" only refers to the idea that the men followed him during the early days while the mer did not.

I'm not really sure what you see your hypothetical Tsaesci's goal as being, however I don't think you really understand what mantling is. Its not literally becoming the god you're trying to mantle - its "walk like them until they walk like you", its taking on their mythic role in the play and acting like they acted until the play itself can no longer tell you apart.
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:00 pm

I just figured that when they "ate" the dragons it meant that they became immortal. So I followed the same dragon = Akatosh notion you did, but I just figured it was supposed to be metaphorical and they pulp writer of Mysterious Akavir stylized it up.
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Oyuki Manson Lavey
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:16 pm

Acatosh and Peryite both choose to appear as dragons, as the aura around dragons suite their purposes. THIS DOEN'T MEAN THAT ALL DRAGONS ARE ACATOSH OR PERYITE! In Redguard, Cyrus (With the help of Hoon Ding's suer awesome power) beats the [censored] out of a young dragon in a cramped place. Acotosh is is still alive. SOMD :P
Before you say that Acatosh is immortal: he isn't. None of the Aedra are, They die and go through the dreamsleeve. IMO, their soul is returned to Mundas, outside of Nirn, and they begin to start a new life (Dragon Break could be the death of Acatosh, and his Jills reminded his reincarnation of his power over time)
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Mr.Broom30
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:06 pm

Dragon Breaks are Akatosh's mind breaking.

Aedra don't die in the mortal sense.
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koumba
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:08 pm

If Kagrenac did make a mistake, it would be reversing the Dwemer's creation before placing the Heart in Numidium. And as has been mentioned before, he may have been distracted by the Chimer army pounding at his door trying to stop him from finishing Numidium.
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Verity Hurding
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:42 pm

The Dwemer knew nothing of Love. Therefore they could not succeed.
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Lizs
 
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