Hi Everyone,

Once again sorry for banging on about bashed patches, but I can't seem to be able to get them to work as I would expect (or at all properly). I've spent most of today building and rebuilding bash patches with different settings then going in and examining them with TES4Edit to see if they looked as I would expect them to (I haven't found one yet that does completely). I've also been reading everything I can find online about bash patches / load order / mods (http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=load_order is the clearest explanation I've found so far but still leaves me short).

So basically I could do with some sagely advice. I'll tell you what I think I've found out and you can tell me if I'm write or wrong and what I should be doing.

I'm trying to get a small-ish number of mods to work together. The main ones are: Francesco's Leveled Creatures, Items, etc. and LAME. Appart from them I'm trying to get a number of minor game tweak mods:



With this load order (all as indicated by BOSS except for Nekulor's AI as it isn't recognised so I had to make an educated guess):



Now what I've found with my bash patch research is that you should make sure to deactivate anything with text in green, purple or italics before building your patch. Beyond that most of the advice seems to say to merge all the mergable mods (which I do) and import from nearly all the import categories (which was my starting point this morning). However I've found that if I do this the unoficial oblivion patch seems to overwrite almost all of the changes Fracesco's tries to make to ACBS and Data Stats for NPC's and creatures. The documentation I found said that Import took into account load order but this didn't seem to stop it taking presidence over francesco's. I've now dissabled any imports of Unofficial Oblivion patch in my bash patch and it now applies most of the changes made by francesco's although inexplicably the UOP still wins out in other cases francesco's is beaten by the oblivion.esm!

There are actually only 3 creatures now in my bash patch that appear to have overridden the settings from francesco's and 2 of those have UOPDeathAnimFix scripts attached.

Unforunately in the cases where the UOP is actually making what look like valid changes it is overridden by Froancesco's, such as Daedric Arrow weights and many changes to mistakes in Full Names. So basically if UOP and Oblivion.esm agree then Francesco's is overridden, and if Francesco's and Oblivion.esm agree then UOP is overidden. This results in any valid chages by these files almost always being overridden - at least for the changes that make it into the bash patch.

Is it possible to go into TES4Edit and make changes to the Bash patch by hand or make some post bash patch fix mod?

(edit) Well apparently you can http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/deisolation.html#Making_an_ESP_Patch_With_TES4Edit using TES4Edit however I can't seem to get past the warning about making changes. It just sits there and doesn't count down so eventually I have to click on "hmmm...let me think about it". Does this get locked in some way?

The short answer to your question is Yes. I tweak my bash patch all the time, but it is tedious because you have to keep doing everytime you need to rebuild the patch. In my case, the tweaks are making up for errors in the original mods. These aren't big or popular mods, I don't think they are even supported anymore, so I just go in to TES4Edit and manually transfer the changes from the UOP or whatever mod I want to copy them from and alter my patch.

However if you are having problems with Fran's then perhaps there is something wrong with your configuration or selections. I don't run Fran's so I can't say for sure. However Fran's is pretty popular so I would expect WB to be set up to handle it properly. You might try posting something in the WB thread if you don't get better responses here. The WB thread is more likely to be monitored by folks who are much more familiar with the intricacies of WB

EDIT: in terms of the problem you are having with TES4Edit, you might try reinstalling it. At one point I found it's configuration file, but I can't find it at the moment. I believe there's a setting in there to control how long the countdown is before it lets you edit the file.

I noticed UOP overwrote values of few weapons Fran's tweaked (such as Dwarven Arrows, that resulted them being weaker than silver arrows), i just took UOP out of "Import stats" section and all weapons and armor are as they should (Fran's specs). I haven't checked creatures, but i haven't noticed anything unusual during my 80+ hours of playing with this setup.

The tweaking of the bash patch is probably a different topic from my main concern about getting my bash patch working properly, but since you say you can do it, how is it done? I've tried editing it in TES4Edit and it wont let me get past the warning screen. In fact I've been playing around and it will only let me click yes to the warning after clicking on "set overide into..." if I don't select my bash patch to load.

Editing the Bashed Patch is not a good idea, since every change will be wiped out when rebuilding the Bashed Patch.
Making your own patch that loads after the BP however is a good idea, since even Wrye Bash can't solve all conflicts. With this method you can check the records in the Bashed Patch and if the wrong mod gett the conflicting records into the BP, or records don't get imported, you can correct this with your own custom patch.

You should also update the UOP with the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710 which has updated bash tags along with numerous other fixes.

Frans, the UOP, and other stuff all got along perfectly fine for me before I set Frans aside after getting fed up with the caliper issue refusing to go away. I don't/didn't use MOBS support, so maybe that's the difference, in which case you need the standalone MOBS file linked at the UOPS page.

UOP selected for import, actors, actors AI, actors death items, cells, fractions, inventory, NPC names, and scripts. Run together with Francesco's results in UOP being used for:

+Creatures
FGC10Troll (Data Stats x1)
CreatureWraith2GloomWeapon (ACBS: Calc min and max)
CreatureWraith0FadedWeapon (ACBS: Calc min)
MQ12LichKing (PKID AI package x2)
MQ12KingsZombie01 (PKID AI package x2)
MQ12KingsZombie02 (PKID AI package x2)

+NPCs
Thiirchel (Data Stats x7)
ChorrolGuardPostStablesDay (Data Stats x4)
SkingradCastleGuardPatrolDay02 (Data Stats x4)
AnvilGuardEscordCountess (Data Stats x4)
ICElvenGuardPatrolDay01 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardPostDay02 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardPostDay04 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardPatrolDay03 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardPatrolDay02 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardPatrolDay01 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardGreatHallNight01 (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardCountess (Data Stats x4)
MQ11AnvilSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
MQ11CheydinhalSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
MQ11KvatchSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
MQ11LeyawiinSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
MQ11SkingradSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
MQ11ChorrolSoldier01 (Data Stats x2)
ChorrolGuardJailorDay (Data Stats x4)
ChorrolGuardJailorNight (Data Stats x4)
SkingradCastleGuardPostNight01 (Data Stats x2)
SkingradGuardPostDay02 (Data Stats x4)
SkingradGuardPostDay04 (Data Stats x4)
SkingradGuardPatrolDay01 (Data Stats x4)
.... And so basically half the guards and a handfull of NPCs

Plus as you say about 15 weapons DATA.


Thanks Arthmoor I will have a look at UOPS.

PetrusOctavianus I think that's what I was trying to do by selecting "set overide into..." from TES4Edit - at least if I'm understanding the guide I was looking at correctly. However I don't seem to be able to get past the warning screen if I select to do so on a creature or item in my bash patch (I'm probably not understanding the process properly).

I never used anything other than the optional adventurers plugin from Frans, along with the ESMs. It looks like you should tag Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp with Actors.ACBS and Actors.Stats. That should resolve any issues with them having their stats and leveling overridden by the UOP. The AI packs are fine and should not be reversed since those fix important issues.

Epic :facepalm: yet another case of RTFM (or BOSS output in this case), i'll have it tattooed to my forehead first thing tomorrow As for the caliper issue, someone once linked a plugin that resets Fran's to default settings everytime a save is loaded, it seems to prevent the bug from occuring.

Hi Arthmoor,

Thanks, have installed UOPS but unfortunately it doesn't sort the problem with UOP overriding Frans, although adding MOBS does help a little with some of the weapons stats. Adding Actors.ACBS and Actors.Stats to the Guard.esp (and the Quest.esp as it was affected to) didn't stop UOP(S) taking presidence over them as long as UOP(S) was being imported. I decided that the best ballance of UOP(S) settings being included to things being overridden in the Bash patch was to import:

Actors: Frans only
AIPackages: Frans Guards and Quests (probably not required as not importing them from UOPS)
DeathItems: UOPS only
Cells: UOPS only
Factions: UOPS only
Inventory: Frans only
Names: UOPS and Oblivion.esm
Relations: UOPS only
Scripts: UOPS only
Stats: Frans and MOBS

I had to not import the AI packages with UOP(S) as it just seemed to override the obviously altered AI for some NPCs in Frans Guards and Quests with the same AI packages that were in Oblivion.esm. Importing Actors and stats from UOP(S) also still messed with Frans and MOBS. Then just had a few remaining conflicts that I tweaked into a new post bash patch patch using TES4Edit (I realised that I couldn't click on "set overide into..." because I was clicking on the item I wanted to change when I should have been clicking on the category :facepalm:).

I fixed the ACBS stats (that were still being overridden by UOPS) for:

CreatureWraith2GloomWeapon
CreatureWraith0FadedWeapon

I also merged the changes UOPS had made to Fractions with the changes to Relation Stats introduced by Nekulors AI - as you would expect since it's over 4 years without an update. Finally I fixed the name of the Silver 'Cup' to Silver 'Glass' that was made by Frans but overridden by UOPS. (I'd just done this mission to, and found that I grabbed every bit of silverware in Cyrodiil just to be sure.)

The Leveled Creatures and Items in my Bash Patch still has a lot of red in it but I really don't understand the TES4Edit output for these. It looks like a lot of it is removing multiple copies of the same creature or item?



Sorry to busy scouring the manuals to be reading BOSS output

It's supposed to as long as the other stuff you tag loads AFTER the UOPS. Are you sure you had it checked in the patch GUI? You shouldn't have to go through the mess you're making with all that selective tagging on things.