Well, its not the actual savegame 'size' im referring to. Really, i have very little knowledge of samegame bloat past what Wyre bash tells me. With the mod enabled, in scenario A, a get a small amout of unnullified refs from wyre bash. Whatever that means. But it was the 'check save game bloat' feature in wyre bash, and under the same circumstances, without the mod, the wyre bash operation detected nothing.

Then you are not experiencing actual bloat. Bloat is caused by creating permanent references in-game. All the references created by Finite Ammo will eventually be purged by the respawning effect which occurs by default. This mod uses no PlaceAtMe, DuplicateAllItems, RemoveAllItems references, or Cloned Forms. Again, it may increase your savegame size, but it is not uncontrolled inflation (bloat). Thanks for the feedback, just the same. I will keep an eye on this, and it is likely in future versions that even the intial savegame size increase will be lessened.

SO why why do i get CTD on load when I try and remove the mod?

Because this mod adds a new item and that item is then added to the player's inventory. If it is not removed from the player's inventory before saving and reloading without this mod enabled, it will call a reference that is no longer there.

Have you tried dropping all your ammo into a chest, and getting somewhere where you are alone before saving and removing the mod?

Did some testing, and had the same problem when reloading a save. However, showler's suggestion above solved the problem. I'll look into it and see if I can't make uninstalling less problematic. As always, thanks for the feedback.

Ah, so i noticed. I was reluctant to say it had bloating, its just that wyre bash showed 5 references, so i assumed it might have been a small imcompatibility with the vitharn quest. Thanks for clearing that up!

Hi Linus,

First up great mod. Adds that realism I'm looking for and definately changes the way I think about using arrows. After about 20+ hours of game play with this mod I would like to give some feedback if I may to help with the next version of this.

1. The mod does a CTD when removed, despite removing all references on the charcter. For example I've removed all arrows and moved to a very remote place with no NPCs around when I saved and unfortunately it still crashes. I've tried showler's suggestion but this did not help in my case. any suggestions in the mean time would be very gratefully received.

2. Bundles can not be removed (well as far as I can tell) as they still come up with a "this is a quest item" message. If this is not unique to me perhaps you might look into this for future versions.

3. Its been mentioned a few times already but the feature which prevents us from changing ammo types is a bit restrictive. However I can see the challenge to balance this realism with gameplay - as a suggestion is it possible to change arrows if you are say a certain distance away from a combatant or you can change only to pre-prepared quivers (see point 4). Not sure if the game engine / script language supports this though.

4. Mulitple bundles would be useful - rather than one main bundle and then the active quiver of 20. That way we could change between quivers if we were savvy enough to have prepared them in advance.

5. Perhaps different versions of the mod which changes the quiver capacity. Say 20, 30, 40 etc. I think its been mentioned before 20 is sometimes not enough to take down your all foes. My guy is a bit weak on non-bow attacks and so has to run for the hills after his arrows run out.

6. The mod manager conflict detector tells me that this mod conflicts with the Enhanced Draedic Invasion, TIE, Combat Realism and the unofficial patch mod. But so far I've not really found any in-game compatabilities. That said, it might be related to point 1.

I hope this helps. Thank you again for making this mod. Bethseda should incorporate this into the main game! It really does changes things a lot and its really forced me to rethink the use of my character.

Kind regards

TS

thanx for this small but invaluable addition to the gameplay

While this mod was primarily intended as a proof-of-concept, and therefore I had not planned extensive support for it, I am occasionally attempting to improve it. For this reason, I will try to address some of the issues TacitShadow has mentioned.



This is a major concern of mine. Any instability associated with any mod of mine will be among the first bugs I will attempt to correct. That said, I have no way of knowing just how difficult it will be to remedy this problem in Finite Ammo. Hopefully, I can locate the cause and develop a fix soon.



The bundles are not intended to be removed. As the scripts currently stand they only offer support for one bundle at a time. If you removed a bundle the next one you created would alter the form of the first. It was intended that rather than remove a bundle you would "unpack" the bundle and then remove the ammo as you need.



This is the direction I would like to take this mod. Unfortunately, it will likely take some complicated scripting involving arrays to achieve the necessary features. I can't say how long it will take to introduce such scripts, but it is planned for the future.



This is a good idea, and it shouldn't be difficult to add. I realize different players have different setups that make the game more or less difficult. Adding alternative quiver sizes would allow individuals to select the most appropriate quantity for their playing style. I will definitely look into this.



The conflict detector can be a bit touchy at times. I'm not certain what all it evaluates in determining where there is a conflict, but Finite Ammo doesn't alter anything in the game, it merely adds scripts to implement the features described in the mod itself.



Thank you for a very informative and helpful post. I wish all feedback was as useful. :goodjob: I agree Bethesda should incorporate such features into their games (as well as "Denock Arrow"), but as long as they give us the tools to do it ourselves, I won't complain too much.

Any progress on this?
I like the idea of being restricted to one quiver, but I don't like the idea of being restricted to only one arrow type.

I'll second Petrus here

I'm getting crashes when I attempt to uninstall this mod too.
Un-Equiping bows and arrows, and unpacking bundles does not help.

A mod that essentially breaks savegames is a MAJOR problem. You need to warn people about it in HUGE letters on the download page.

Oh wait i think i got it.

You don't need to just unequip archery gear and make sure you don't have an arrow bundle, you need to completely remove all arrows from your inventory.

Ok not as bad as I thought, but there definitely should be a note to that effect in the readme.

FYI: Duke Patrick's Combat Archery also adds similar functionality as this mod (toggleable by ini)... Search for it on TesAlliance...