This thread is a new idea of mine to where we take a look a certain aspect of the history of tamriel and ask ourself what if something had never happend or what if this had happend instead. what do yall think? and any ideas for our first debate? no right or wrong answers here only speculation.

Sure, I guess. Though it makes more sense to start a new thread for each topic :shrug:

I guess we can start with Vivec. What all would go wrong if Vivec was never born, or never achieved... Vehkness. I'm not sure if it's even possible, but if it were then what kind of stuff would never have happened? It seems like it'd be quite a few things

I'd at least think that the Tribunal never would have risen to significance, and Nerevar might not have been killed. So Morrowind would have gone down an entirely different political and cultural path. The Dwemer thing might have been different, Dagoth Ur might have not messed with the Heart, the Oblivion Crisis might never have happened.

I doubt it would have affected Dagoth Ur, that was more on the parts of himself, Nerevar, and Kagrenac.

He never would have been left with the tools at the heart, since it was the Tribunal who convinced him that Anumidium was evil.

Who's to say the Tribunal wouldn't have existed as Nerevar's advisors without Vivec?

Didn't the tribunal toy with the heart after they killed Nerevar? So, if Vehk and co failed to become gods, wouldn't Nerevar still be dead. And Dagoth Ur would still be sharmating because the tribunal used Kagrenac's tools on the heart after him. About the Nerevarine prophecies, I don't know ... maybe one of the failed incarnates the ordinators killed wouldn't have died then but died when trying to slay Mr Ur, so the prophecies were discredeted and the real Nerevarine was never released from prison.

What if there was no Champion of Cyrodiil, and the Amulet rested in the Mankar's hands? Do you think his vision of Gaiar Alata would have filled the vacancy, assuming some other power didn't stop White-Gold's fall? Do you think Eldamil, and the lieutenants of Mankar, could have betrayed his master without the hero?

What if vivec is wrong? :nuke: FREEDOM!!!

What if the Dwemer won the Battle of Red Mountain?

I think their main goal to use Numidium would have still happened. Some even argue that it went as planned, and they're cruising in Aetherius right now. Though if they were planning on using it as a big stompy robot to conquer Tamriel, I suppose things would be different.

Tricksy, I meant what if he was never born, or if he just remained a simple farmer or the like. So if Vehk and co. never formed together under Vivec's banner, then they would never be Vehk and co., therefore never killing anyone. So no sharmating would occur, as Kagrenac would probably still have the tools, or at least hidden them after becoming part of Numidium.

If there was never a Champion, I think that Dagon would go on a killing spree, and once things were nasty like his realm he might start the other half of his realm up. Though I can't be sure.

Hopefully nobody still believes either one of those as possibilities for what they were planning. I really haven't seen anybody seriously argue that they just went to Aetherius in about four or five years...

Then again, who says Dagon failed? Mankar might have gotten 'effed, but Dagon did pretty well for himself.

:shrug: I haven't looked very carefully at the dwarves recently, my mistake.


On a more constructive note: What if the Camoran Usurper hadn't been stopped, and conquered all of High Rock? What would he do next?

He was already at a low point when he was defeated. The refugees has a few comments about that direction, he was back to illusions and zombies. So he probably would have been defeated later on by the next organized push.

That's discounting the effects of that mythical Barron guy involved ofcourse.

Here a seneriio. What would have happend in each of the 8 different timelines afther daggerfall if they where'nt merged back into one. For a refresher here are what happend at each ending.
1.)King of worms becomes the god of worms
2.)The underking gets his heart back
3.)The player gets killed
4 - 6.)daggerfall/sentinel/wayrest gains control of the totem and crush opposing factions - pretty much same thing different faction
7.)Gortwog gains the totem and creates orsinium
8.)The blades receive the totem and bring order

Hard one to call. It's possible that in that potential timeline since the Jills didn't split him, the God of Worms would be a stronger entity. He'd still be trapped within his own realm like a Daedric Prince though. The only time he'd be able to manifest on Nirn would be during a time period when the barriers are weak, such as during the Oblivion crisis.



All that really happens there is he got to rest in peace. Correct me if I am missing anything.



Well....[censored] happens.



The political landscape of the Iliac Bay would be pretty different. Although I dare so, underneath the petty differences it's all basically Breton culture, so there wouldn't be any radical world altering changes. The Orcs would probably never gain acceptance to the degree they did otherwise.



That one's obvious. Orcs gain acceptance as a sentient race.



Another obvious one. Cyrodill gains a tighter chokehold over central Tamriel, and it becomes harder for her political enemies to conspire against her. Although it may provide more incentive and hatred against the Empire.



Here's my question:

What do you believe would have happened if Umaril had his way?

Or alternately, do you think he would have worked together with Mehrunes Dagon and Mankar Camaron since some of their goals were similar?

More than that, they become the dominant power in the region, swallowing up Wayrest and putting both Sentinel and Daggerfall (and whatever Orsinium's eastern neighbor too) in a very dangerous position.

While on the surface, Umaril wanted the same thing that Cameron did, there was a core difference between their philosophies. Cameron believed that the path to better happy-fun times was through communion of the Daedra, whereas Umaril was more about mastery of the Daedra to enforce the better happy-fun times. Umaril would've been offended that he would have to kneel before the Prince of Destruction. As for your original question, I'd say that once he had overthrown the nine, all of the laws that they protect would break, bringing about a more extreme version of the crisis, with Umaril likely as the filter between all things. Umaril sustains the barriers, he enforces (or doesn't) the dead pact of Arkay, he keeps time where it is, and so on and so on.

Although, then again, there wasn't a Chapel of Akatosh in Cyrodiil in working order. Maybe he couldn't have...

Nothing.



Absolutely not.