Mannimarco - a Lich or just really old?

Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:03 am

I know absolutely nothing about physics, but isn't it possible that in teleportation attempts atoms are de-assembled and re-assembled?

Edit: I accidently my post


To do so would both be extremely dangerous and it would take too much energy. You'd have to separate every single atom in your body and send it dozens or even hundreds of miles, potentially through other objects. Even individual atoms have trouble getting through solid walls of atoms, I for one wouldn't risk it. Besides, then you have to reassemble once you got there, all of which would have to be contained within a single thought or incantation? That's more atoms than I even know the word for, I'd have to go scientific notation on it :P

Telikeniis.... a BUTTLOAD of brainwaves.

Brainwaves can't leave your brain... They're just the electrical impulses caused by firing synapses within your head, they can't influence anything physical. They have been used to manipulate computers and video games, our brains can control anything that follows an electronic code, but not physical objects. If you could manipulate gravity within a confined space, I suppose that might do it :shrug:

Teliportation... Wormholes

Wormholes are tunnels through spacetime that exist in four dimensions. We can't even create a diagram of what one would look like, we need to bring space down to two dimensions in order to even draw one. I would accept the atom theory over the wormhole one, even though it was made plausible by general relativity.

Science can even explain the Bible (and in my opinion, in some cases, proves it)

What? Where did the Bible come in? Geography can explain some of the things in the Bible, but I don't see where physics come in. Unless you are saying biblical miracles, in which case I wouldn't bring those up if I were you.



Basically, my rule with magic is don't overthink it. If you attempt to apply it to the real world you will inevitably encounter problems. Unless the creators specifically made it explainable by science, it will most likely never be, until we can match every effect of a mage with a device. I believe the saying goes, "Technology advanced enough appears like magic to those who don't understand it." Or something like that :P


Anyway, back on topic of Mannimarco...
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Carlitos Avila
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:06 pm

You and your science :rolleyes:

Of course, magic doesn't obey science, and unless the devs got that technical with it then it's unlikely that they went so deep as to define magic's place within the laws of physics (energy conservation). Entirely possible, but unlikely.

I would think magic, if one must define it, works best to be described as potential energy in its purest form. Then, once a mage gets hold of it, they can turn that potential into change, be it thermal, kinetic, etc. I can't imagine how telekinesis works according to science, or teleportation, but since they use magic if we were to get scientific then some magical energy would have to be used up in order for it to occur. Which would mean that it either works in a feasible way (don't think so), or it is a new force altogether. I'm going with the second one ;)

So, magicka is potential, but then it depends on how you use it in spells after that, some of which behave in a way entirely alien to us. But then that energy would need some way of either returning to Aetherius or increasing the total energy on Nirn. So if we got scientific enough, Nirn is either going to go through global warming, or energy is being sent back somehow.

I wouldn't say that Magicka is heat energy or that, just pure potential energy to change. From what I have explored, it follows the 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd laws of Thermodynamics.
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N Only WhiTe girl
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:31 pm

Science can even explain the Bible (and in my opinion, in some cases, proves it)


Don't go there. Even if I agreed with you, that's a good way to get a topic closed.
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Averielle Garcia
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:00 am

Brainwaves can't leave your brain... They're just the electrical impulses caused by firing synapses within your head, they can't influence anything physical. They have been used to manipulate computers and video games, our brains can control anything that follows an electronic code, but not physical objects. If you could manipulate gravity within a confined space, I suppose that might do it


I said a [censored]LOAD for a reason. I am a very, very big nerd and am fairly certain I understand (as much as an eight grader can) the reactions that produce brainwaves.
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keri seymour
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:26 am

I know absolutely nothing about physics, but isn't it possible that in teleportation attempts atoms are de-assembled and re-assembled?

Edit: I accidently my post

Are you saying, "disassemble something into its basic atoms and then moving them and re-assembling" or attempting to "dissemble everything into sub-atomic particles?" One's stupidly hard, the other is liable to blow up a city.

@darkom

If you could manipulate gravity within a confined space, I suppose that might do it

As I'm sure you know, Gravity is an incredibly weak force, so that would still be in the realm of incredibly impractical. Electro-magnetism would be much easier.
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Assumptah George
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:52 am

Are you saying, "disassemble something into its basic atoms and then moving them and re-assembling" or attempting to "dissemble everything into sub-atomic particles?" One's stupidly hard, the other is liable to blow up a city.


Not to mention that in either case, you'd die in the process. ;)
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Marilú
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:15 am

Personally, his age fits well with a lich, but a true lich wouldn't look anything like a human form. From what i remember he pretty much just looked like a really old Altmer. Am i right or wrong? Lichs don't just look old they look like something out of a horror movie. Someone who has deformed so much all that is left is maybe a few flabs of tissue hanging from their skeleton structure.

It's always funny to me that someone who plays Oblivion and is like "oh my god it would be so cool if i could become a lich". Yea, the undead world is not a pleasant one at that. Not something u want to become unless you enjoy the immortality part of it. That's the only enjoyable part to me..
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xx_Jess_xx
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:13 pm

It's always funny to me that someone who plays Oblivion and is like "oh my god it would be so cool if i could become a lich". Yea, the undead world is not a pleasant one at that. Not something u want to become unless you enjoy the immortality part of it. That's the only enjoyable part to me..

That's pretty much the biggest reason mages resort to lichdom. Whether it's because they want to continue research, protect a dangerous artifact/daedric invasion, or continue to gain power because death is EXTREMELY inconvenient. The most successful liches seem to be those who stick to the former two. Heck, when one resorts to lichdom, they really don't give two [censored] about the events outside of their pursuits and tend to be huge isolationists, unless a willing pawn was there to strike a deal that'd directly favor the lich. Even Mannimarco lived in hiding, trying to buy time and power to give Arkay the middle finger and be on his way. Hell, the only real time he seemed to intervene in DF was when he wanted to use you to get the Mantella and strike a deal with Morghiath

Going a bit off-tpoic, the only reason Mannimarco didn't like the Mages Guild was because the founder pretty much declared war on him when the founder left the guild. And even then, petty revenge just does not fit Mannimarco's bill. His history never gave an impression he really cared about anyone outside of himself. He may be an amoral ass, but at least he did go around trying to wage war on anyone. Heck, his history doesn't seem to show he was a part of any wars, other than when the Mages Guild founder waged war on him. Even when undead and daedra were rampaging when Cameran the Usurper was having his fun. To me, and what his history seems to indicate, he's way above petty vengeance and didn't even seem to care he got kicked out of the Psijiics. Hell, he didn't give a crap for the rules that forbid the practicing necromancy AS a psijiic. This is a big factor of why I don't think the Mannimarco from OB was the true Mannimarco.
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Tamika Jett
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:28 pm

Maybe the ideology of the Mage's Guild was becoming a thorn in his side. The guild had swung back to an ideology closer to it's original incarnation complete with casting out of Necromancy. All of a sudden, it had become hard to do business as a Necromancer. Mannimarco was on the trail of gutting it's leadership completely and destroying it once and for all, which it can be argued that he did.

Of course, this assumes that he wasn't stupid enough to get himself killed by the guild's newest Archmage, a recruit from earlier that year.
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Lisa
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:35 am

Maybe the ideology of the Mage's Guild was becoming a thorn in his side. The guild had swung back to an ideology closer to it's original incarnation complete with casting out of Necromancy. All of a sudden, it had become hard to do business as a Necromancer. Mannimarco was on the trail of gutting it's leadership completely and destroying it once and for all, which it can be argued that he did.

Of course, this assumes that he wasn't stupid enough to get himself killed by the guild's newest Archmage, a recruit from earlier that year.

I honestly think he wouldn't have given a two [censored] what the guild does, as long as they don't directly wage a war on him. Unless we gain new information that Traven was actually sending the first blows against Mannimarco, I don't think he would have cared if a bunch of misfits were being persecuted. Heck, for him it seemed might makes right. So if some necromancer got themselves killed, obviously you were too weak and deserved it. Hell, his base of operation in DF had liches and ancient vampires everywhere, now that's some tough security, but he never once started throwing punches, unless someone was actively going after him.
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Vicky Keeler
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:14 pm

Maybe he got a god complex after, you know, becoming a god? That way he was caring for his sheep, looking out for the best interests of his flock. The diary of that Necromancer would suggest just such a thing. Therefore, Traven hindering the growth and expansion of his field of interest was a blow to him, albeit one of ideology.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:46 pm

Bethesda didn't feel that a character who existed only to serve as the antagonist of a single guild was worth making a fully unique non-playable race that would look a little more undead.


I played through the Mages Guild questline last night for the first time. I must be upfront and admit that I've never played any of the other TES games. However I was very surprised when I met Mannimarco and he was just an Altmer. Prior to that the build up had lead me to assume he was a lich. One thing struck me as out of place with that whole quest line though. It seemed far to big in scope to just concern one guild. I don't know much about Mannimarco but from everything I was reading and being told in Oblivion it sounded to me like he could have been the main enemy for the entire game, not just that one guild.

Does anyone else think maybe that would have made for a better masterquest, or that he should have been saved for a future TES game?
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:27 am

I played through the Mages Guild questline last night for the first time. I must be upfront and admit that I've never played any of the other TES games. However I was very surprised when I met Mannimarco and he was just an Altmer. Prior to that the build up had lead me to assume he was a lich. One thing struck me as out of place with that whole quest line though. It seemed far to big in scope to just concern one guild. I don't know much about Mannimarco but from everything I was reading and being told in Oblivion it sounded to me like he could have been the main enemy for the entire game, not just that one guild.

Does anyone else think maybe that would have made for a better masterquest, or that he should have been saved for a future TES game?

Personally, raging against the Mages Guild like that didn't fit a bill that suited him. If you read his history and played DF, it cames off that he pretty much doesn't really give a [censored] about outside things, unless they directly affect him. I highly doubt Traven would have been a even a side thought, unless Traven tried to have him assassinated, only because Mannimarco is Mannimarco. Plus, with the DF endings, I doubt anyone really knew what was up with him, save for the divines and him.

In the end, he was nothing more than a weak plot antagonist with nothing more than a "muahahaha I am stupidly evil, and I kick puppies, because I am stupidly evil" complex.
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:16 pm

Personally, raging against the Mages Guild like that didn't fit a bill that suited him. If you read his history and played DF, it cames off that he pretty much doesn't really give a [censored] about outside things, unless they directly affect him. I highly doubt Traven would have been a even a side thought, unless Traven tried to have him assassinated, only because Mannimarco is Mannimarco. Plus, with the DF endings, I doubt anyone really knew what was up with him, save for the divines and him.

In the end, he was nothing more than a weak plot antagonist with nothing more than a "muahahaha I am stupidly evil, and I kick puppies, because I am stupidly evil" complex.

This post has been edited by Hellmouth: Today, 06:09 AM


I always assumed that it was similar to how the Aedra had avatars in Morrowind. The Altmer was the Avatar of Mannimarco.
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Lauren Dale
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:14 am

I always assumed that it was similar to how the Aedra had avatars in Morrowind. The Altmer was the Avatar of Mannimarco.


http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta.shtml


King of Worms: "The Jills of Aka-tosh have mended this numidition. Mannimarco remains as he was: the high priest of maggots."


That's led a lot of people to believe that while the god created at the end of Daggerfall remains, the mortal aspect of Mannimarco was divided from it and cast back into Nirn. So that was Mannimarco we killed, but not the God of Worms. It's a bit complicated but it would seem to be the case.
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le GraiN
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:39 am

I am pretty sure that even if this wasn't Mannimarco, that this person is still one powerful necromancer, based on the fact that he had all of these other necromancers following him around, and the cave he was in had those skeletal bone things coming out of the cieling and floor. He just didn't seem that tough because of Oblivions leveling system.
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jessica robson
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:46 pm

You know, that's a good point. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Lich#Lich, so how could he have those glowing eyes if he was a lich?
Lich do have eyes.

http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/daggerfall-box-cover-2.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/dagger/monsters/malich.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/dagger/monsters/mlich.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/1/1b/ArenaLich.gif
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sally R
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:38 am

Lich do have eyes.

http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/daggerfall-box-cover-2.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/dagger/monsters/malich.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/dagger/monsters/mlich.jpg
http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/1/1b/ArenaLich.gif

Along with:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File%3a%44F-King_of_Worms.png
http://www.hardgamers.com/images/e32005_oblivion/tes4e3lich---Oblivion.jpg
MW was the only one that had no eyes. But even then, we also have http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/6/64/BM-Creature-LordAesliip.jpg from Bloodmoon.
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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:52 am

Maybe he got a god complex after, you know, becoming a god? That way he was caring for his sheep, looking out for the best interests of his flock. The diary of that Necromancer would suggest just such a thing. Therefore, Traven hindering the growth and expansion of his field of interest was a blow to him, albeit one of ideology.


a god's worshippers in ES give him power = Traven interfered with that by killing the god's worshippers = Traven made himself mannimarco's enemy ... evil beings kill their enemies even if they do not care about them otherwise
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zoe
 
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