Well, I was rereading the sermons again (it's been a while), and in the first one, after the "seven Daedra" appear, which I'm assuming are the Anticipations and the Four Corners beyond being an attempt to link to real-world numerology, this eighth one comes, and is called a "demiprince."



So... what's a Demiprince? How do they relate to full Princes? Do they, like the Princes, have their own planets, or satellites, or what?

Aside, if anyone answers as though they were talking in a sermon, using cryptospeak and not giving a straight answer, that's the opposite of help, so if that's how you want to answer, do us all a favor and don't post at all. If you know the answer, just say it. If you know that there is no answer in established lore, just say it.

I had overlooked that when reading it years ago. The word contains the root "half" as far as I know, so they're probably a type of daedra below the full Princes; a type of "half-prince" without their own plane/planets. Hopefully someone on the forums will know more about this.

I figured that, but I'm no expert on the heirarchy of Daedra.

Would that be someone like Imago Storm? :unsure: I mean, he's a Count, but still he seems more of a Lesser Daedra. Would Umbriel be this sort of demiprince? What about Umeril, or the King of Worms?

I don't think the Counts are them, because a Daedric Duke (scamp, but still) is referred to as a Duke, and not a Demiprince.

I hadn't thought of Umbriel or Umaril. Umaril can regain his body and maintain his memories after going through the waters of Oblivion, but is technically a mortal. We don't know enough about Umbriel to figure him out, yet, though. Maybe book two.

Or, one of the seven present approaches Vivec again, this tme as half their sovereignty/plane. Possibly murder from Mephala, or betrayal from Lorkhan.

I found this quote from the dev Ted Peterson in 2004: "There is no specific function or duty of a demiprince. Some Princes have little organization and hierarchy in their realms, others have a very militaristic caste system. There's no one answer to that, except the obvious: a demiprince is half a prince, a pretty powerful thing."

http://www.mwmythicmods.com/Archives/Lore/The%20Daedric%20Chain%20of%20Command.htm

Look under the "Tedders" post of July 31, 2004. The August 8, 2004 post is interesting:

"None of this, incidentally, has anything at all to do with how things are done in Oblivion. The names of Daedra Count and Daedra Prince et cetera were given to the creatures based on men and mers' assumptions of their relative power and influence. In our world, there are emperor geese and emperor moths, named by someone long ago because they were magnificent looking, not because they reigned over an empire, bossing around their underlings, and arranging invasions and truces."

"The titles given to Daedra are much the same to the title given to moths and geese. It's unwise to infer that because there's a system of rank in the minds of the people of Mundus that the Daedra do it the same way."

"In other words, one shouldn't assume that Sheogorath routinely honors the daedra he commands with honorifics based on their "good" deeds, raising a Daedra Lord up to the level of Daedra Count." [end of quote]

MK writes in "The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga" http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/aldudagga.shtml
the following: "Before the Dagon's eyes this bull [transformed itself as in the manner of god-guiser magic] into Mor, the Bull of the South, Son-of-Kyne, and demiprince of All Winds."

Oh, hey, I just remembered - what about Rogue Moons, like the one that ended up smashing into Vivec city? Could that have been a demi-daedric prince?

There are two possibilities I can fathom.

1, a Demiprince is a powerful spirit somewhere between mortal and divine who refused to participate in the creation of Mundus and was thus cast into the void, but without a sphere of his own.

or

2 , a Demiprince is the most powerful type of lesser Daedra who serves a Daedric Prince...like the nobility of a sphere. Like the Dukes of the Shivering Isles or the Valkynaz of Mehrunes Dagon.

Probably number one, if it's anything but a mortal distinction, being they have seperate titles.

As for the "mortal distinction," normally I would agree, but since the sermons were supposedly written by Vivec himself, who is a god, by whatever means, by the time these were written, would he still use the mortal distinctions, or is that for the benefit of the in-Universe readers?

A demiprince is a stellar spirit that is caught in orbit around a Prince or other significant phenomena and cannot escape. But isn't large enough to be considered a Prince in its own right ala Malacath.

In more arcane terms, a Demiprince is a Daedra who likely either had its sphere voluntarily or forcefully consumed by its reigning Prince. Now it fulfills a specific niche role within the Prince's sphere. Like a Demiprince of Namira might be Chuith the Master of Nightmares in Which the Dreamer is Falling.

At least, that makes the best sense to me, and sets up the Pluto jokes quite nicely.

That does make sense, but I see more a moon than a dwarf planet in your anology.

talk about splitting hairs

perhaps demipreince IS just another word for lesser Daedra that don't follow a specific prince.

How can there be a mortal that refuses to participate in the creation of mundus? Mortals didn't exist before that.