Jagar Tharn, Mehrunes Dagon, and outdated lore

Post » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:34 am

Having played Arena, I am aware of most of the lore about Jagar Tharn was created after the game in which he actually played a major role was released. I have several questions about him. First, what was his race? I remember reading an ingame book stating he was a mix of several races and I recall this book(one related to Barenziah) mentioning he was the son of a Wood Elf. Just what is Jagar Tharn's race? Also, who are Imperials descended from? Are Imperials a mix of several different races? Was Jagar Tharn an Imperial and were Imperials back in Arena and Daggerfall considered to be a mix, if they existed at all(I know they aren't playable in those games)? Also, I remember Jauffre stating Mehrunes Dagon assisted Tharn. How did Dagon assist Tharn, with servants and/or use of his realm to serve as a prison for Emperor Uriel Septim VII or something else? How well did the Empire do under Tharn's rule? From background stories in Daggerfall, I'm assuming people were aware of Tharn controlling the Empire and from those stories, I'm assuming Tharn held an iron grip over the empire, but are either of those statements true? Was Tharn's rule a time of fear and oppression? As for my final topic, since it seems the lore from Arena(and even Daggerfall, in some cases) is outdated, are we to assume that what we saw in Arena is not canon? Can we assume the Imperial City resembled its most recent form shown in Oblivion during Tharn's rule instead of its form shown in Arena? White Gold Tower's presence in Oblivion but absence in Arena seems to confirm that, but I just needed to make sure Talos didn't decide to redesign the Imperial City along with the jungles of Cyrodiil. Did Emperor Uriel Septim VII and many citizens of the Empire really speak with generic, medieval accents at one point? Could The Eternal Champion, while possibly not being an Argonian, really survive Black Marsh?
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yermom
 
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Post » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:44 pm

Well, very little lore was made in Arena, Daggerfall introduced most it it. In Arena the Daedra didnt even exsist yet...so yes, most of Arena has been changed to suit the later games when the true lore came along. I dont really know much about the tthings you are asking (where did imperials come from etc) however;

The Imperial City has always had its 6 parts, look at the Arena map:
http://www.invision.tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1274226435/gallery_108_44_58133.jpg
All that is really missing in that layout is White-Gold Tower, which was invented into the lore later on.

If you like to think about it, Arena was a base, it had the lands drawn up and a little culture, then the later games have come along and added history and subtance to the different places.
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Kayleigh Mcneil
 
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Post » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:28 pm

Well, very little lore was made in Arena, Daggerfall introduced most it it. In Arena the Daedra didnt even exsist yet...so yes, most of Arena has been changed to suit the later games when the true lore came along. I dont really know much about the tthings you are asking (where did imperials come from etc) however;

The Imperial City has always had its 6 parts, look at the Arena map:
http://www.invision.tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1274226435/gallery_108_44_58133.jpg
All that is really missing in that layout is White-Gold Tower, which was invented into the lore later on.

If you like to think about it, Arena was a base, it had the lands drawn up and a little culture, then the later games have come along and added history and subtance to the different places.

The Imperial City in Arena didn't have the circular design, the proper palace, the Arena, or many of the other features in Oblivion.
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Euan
 
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Post » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:05 am

The descriptions of the Imperials have never really conflicted, though the concepts have evolved. Look at the drawings of the Cyrodilics from the first edition pocket guide. Read the lore from the Song of Pelinal and the Remanada. Some of the Cyrodilics were very distinct, like the Kothringi, but others are more subtle. Also, what is race?

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml#3 were the enemy in Oblivion, where I assume Dagon would haved helped Tharn, in a similar manner as he helped Mankar. Who knows? Tharn may have used the prisons of Gaiar Alata, before Mankar was selected to be the bad guy. Maybe Uriel ran through an infinte sprawl of the wastes in unbridled terror, like lord Hidetora. I think we're only told he was captive in another dimension, which would become Oblivion.

If you like to think about it, Arena was a base, it had the lands drawn up and a little culture, then the later games have come along and added history and subtance to the different places.

Yeah, think of the games as you would editions of d&d.
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:25 am

Having played Arena, I am aware of most of the lore about Jagar Tharn was created after the game in which he actually played a major role was released. I have several questions about him. First, what was his race?
Half-breed.
"Part Dark Elf, part High Elf, and part the gods only know what. All the worst qualities of all his combined bloods..." - "The Real Barenziah".

Also, who are Imperials descended from? Are Imperials a mix of several different races?
Nords + Bretons + lot of different separate Nedic tribes + even Akaviri sometimes.

Also, I remember Jauffre stating Mehrunes Dagon assisted Tharn. How did Dagon assist Tharn, with servants and/or use of his realm to serve as a prison for Emperor Uriel Septim VII or something else?
The story of Battlespire is about pact of Tharn and Mechrunes.
The inprisonment of Uriel in Mechrunes realm is possible, but I think it was a clother to Camoran's Paradise inner-Realm.

From background stories in Daggerfall, I'm assuming people were aware of Tharn controlling the Empire and from those stories, I'm assuming Tharn held an iron grip over the empire, but are either of those statements true?
Opposite. Tharn didn't rule Empire at all, and this caused numerous wars and rebellions. Moreover, it seems that Tharn even sectretly supported this conflicts.

Was Tharn's rule a time of fear and oppression?
Time of fear and lawlessness, to be correct.

As for my final topic, since it seems the lore from Arena(and even Daggerfall, in some cases) is outdated, are we to assume that what we saw in Arena is not canon?
No. Arena lore should not be non-canon; but it should be interpreted keeping in mind more recent lore.

Can we assume the Imperial City resembled its most recent form shown in Oblivion during Tharn's rule instead of its form shown in Arena?
Yes.

White Gold Tower's presence in Oblivion but absence in Arena seems to confirm that, but I just needed to make sure Talos didn't decide to redesign the Imperial City along with the jungles of Cyrodiil.
If Talos did, if would have effect on PGE description of IC, not on Arena depiction.

Did Emperor Uriel Septim VII and many citizens of the Empire really speak with generic, medieval accents at one point?
It's possible...

Could The Eternal Champion, while possibly not being an Argonian, really survive Black Marsh?
He's Eternal Champion, after all.
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Alisia Lisha
 
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