I'm incline to believe that, however, except for what DarthRavanger had previously posted.

The Nerevarine was made of svck.
She first made tons and tons of fortify intelligence potions and then tons and tons of fortify strength potions and kicked everyone's ass.
While she did have this thing for powerful men, Dagoth never knew if he wanted to hit the Nerevarine or kiss her and she kicked him halfway to Aetherius because she lost her patience.
(Or maybe it was just the main quest).

The Nerevarine was a medicine. The question is which was worse, the disease or the cure(varine)?

He was good, of course. The bad things he caused where unintentional. It was all played by Azura. She is the one to blame here. Now you see, if Hircine was worshipped by the Dunmer, everything would be fine

The Nerevarine tried to do the good thing, but in the end, it led to everything that happened.

But really, surely, if Azura cared so much about the Dunmer, she could easily have helped Vivec. Vivec should have told the people to flee Vvardenfell, though. Pretty selfish to rather be worshipped for a while longer, than to save the whole Dunmer race.

First of all whether he weakened the barrier or not the ultimate safeguard against Oblivion was the Compact of Alessia and the Dragonfires. We could discuss all day why Dagon didn't take advantage of the other breaks in succession but we know the lack of a Dragornborn was the reason for the Crisis.

In the end the last of the Dragonborn offered himself up as well as the symbol of the compact as a sacrifice to seal those barriers forever. That in the end is a more sure protection than destructible towers. So the Nevarine was inadvertently aiding the CoC, the last Dragonborn and Akatosh himself in sealing up Mundus forever from the attentions of Dagon's apocalyptic intent. Destroying a faulty foundation to rebuild an indestructible one, essentially. Besides the Heart of Lorkhan was something that even Lorkhan himself (in his aspects) seemed to have moved beyond.

Come on. Think of first Numidium powered with the heart of the god of space.time. We've all been over this before. Akulakhan would have mashed all Tamriel into corprus soup.

Okay... I dont see the Nerevarine as good or bad but atleast his actions were good.

What would happen if there came no Nerevarine?

Dagoth would get his golem up and running, the world would become an ashpit, there would be no emperor leading to... :shocking:
An daedric invasion!!! bliviongate:
Who would win that? Hard question... Dagoth is a god and he got the Akulakhan but Mehrunes is also a god and he got an infinate supply of Daedras... I am not guessing that the Mythic Dawn wasnt needed to open the gates. But anyway, I think Dagon would win. Eventually there would be no humans left, they cant reproduce (right? They are corprus beasts so they shouldnt be able to...) and eventually Dagon would win.
And then Tamriel would be just another realm of Oblivion, the lands of Dagon.

What would happen if there came a Nerevarine who suceeded and all that?

Dagoth dies, the Akulakhan is destroyed and the Red Tower is destroyed.
The daedric invasion comes, Martin and the CoC stops it, Martin dies, Akatosh fixes an eternal defense against the Daedras.
Chaos in Tamriel since there is no emperor and the empire is falling apart, the Ministry of Truth destroys Vvardenfell and parts of Morrowind...
Lots of chaos, eventually the Mede emperors fixes the situation.


Which do you think is best?

Lols -the ash pit makes a fine distinction

There's other stuff along with that - like would Dagoth Ur really have cared if Vvardenfell was destroyed by Vivec's prison?

As far as he seemed to be concerned all beings were fodder for his Divine fleshly disease to propagate - he could just as easily have done that elsewhere provided the Blight continued to manifest in the remains of the volcano.

The fly in that ointment is if the Heart goes to power the robot then does the Blight continue to propagate?

Well that seems to be his point of view and dilemma. So did he really love his dagothlings?

Does anyone feel that Dagoth Ur was sane? Or that sanity is really preferable to becoming a fleshy sludge? Answer is yes ... but then my personal choice is to remain free to decide my own future and I have no desire to have Dagoth Ur do it for me

Objectively then:
Is good and bad / morality based upon the individual or upon a consensus of society? I would say morality is based upon a consensus of society by definition - there is the crux of the point of view thing for all

Dagoth Ur apparently sought to take away everyone's ability to choose. More than that he was a snake oil salesman - promising the poor dupes nirvana and giving them a poisoned chalice. So he was anti-tropic since he wanted all power to devolve to himself ... and frankly he was unable to fully control himself let alone all that power. So he would have imploded or exploded and likely take the whole mundus with him assuming he could have hung on that long - now that's entropy in action big-time

Wow. That could make some awesome confusing quest line. Seeing what would happen without a hero or something. I would love to have seen Ur v Dagon wars.

Ur can make a corprus beast immortal. Although it doesn't happen in game, an Ash Vampire can resurrect once it dies. I'm assuming the same can be said for all corprus monsters, being under his control. (I doubt he cares enough about corprus beasts now to bother with them, ut in a war he'd do somehting, I'd think)

I think Dagoth would win. It's not about reproducing, all corprus beasts ascend eventually they ressurect probably similar to how Daedric minions do. And it's not just about legions and fighting, it's about rewriting the myth and history. The Second Numidium would have been indescribable. If completed it would have kept Oblivion gates at bay just merely existing.

Neither would win, imo. It would be an eternal battle. Unless the power from the heart is less than an actual god.

Also, I dont know very much about this Akulakhan golem. It is supposed to be some sort of... machine... which is EXTREMLY mighty?
Can anyone fill me in with some more info about it?

Also, I forgot about the Ash guys resurecting... I think that one way to stop Ur would be to have a Sheo and Ur have a nice jolly cup of tea and talk about different stuff, eventually Sheo would lead Ur down on the golden path! Making his ashpit look more like... The Shivering Isles?

Long, long ago there lived a trickster god named Lorkhan who was very much like Loki of the Norse mythos. Lorkhan tricked the Aedra (Akatosh, Azura, etc.) into creating Nirn and man one day in an attempt to become much more powerful (as creating the world of Nirn was very draining on them). Akatosh removed Lorkhan's heart as punishment and cast it to the world, effectively killing Lorkhan in the process.

Lorkhan's heart crash landed into Red Mountain on Vvardenfell where it lay dormant until the Emperor tried to create the man-made god Numidium. His plans ended up being foiled and Numidium was destroyed. TES III comes along and Dagoth Ur, now holed up in Red Mountain uses Lorkhan's Heart to create the blight that strikes Vvardenfell. Akulakhan is what Dagoth Ur is trying to create, basically a second Numidium that will drive the foreigners out of Morrowind, and establish the worship of this real god rather than the false worship of the tribunal gods (Vivec, Sotha Sil, and Alexandria).

:D

Alright... But what can this golem do? Is it just a big golem which runs around hitting people which the owner of the Mantella wants to be hit upon? Or is it something more?

Other people will be able to explain it better. But when it attacked the Aldmeri Dominion, it not only destroyed them militarily, but mythologically, historically and symbollically. Powered by Lorkhan, who is a god of space and time, it can do that. It shattered local time and spawned an inifinite number of mini-realities, and so even now those Aldmer are still locked in battle with it. It changed them historically. Those who survived could not remember what things were like before Cyrodiil came. So it was pretty much the most powerful thing in all history.

Read this and look at the Aldmeri version of the Dragon Break; http://monkeytruth.net/texts/dragonbreak.shtml

So... It... Like... Changes the world into the vision/desires the controller of the golem? By all means? It kinda... Crushes all history into it? It kinda crushes everything about it? Its the ultimate weapon, you could say... Crushes is perhaps the wrong word... Changes is better, but crushes sounds better...

I dont know if the controller of the Numidium could control it's destruction to that extent and in that manner. I always presumed it was just what the Numidium did.

Dagoth Ur using the complete Akulakhan in that manner would be an interesting sight.

Uh, got a few things wrong there, or read in a different light.
First off, it is the mer (and redguards, but they consider Akatosh as the same as Shor), who view Shor as a trickster. Men view him as divine mercy. Also, Azura is NOT an aedra, Azura is a daedra. The aedra are those who gave of pieces of themselves to create Mundus, the daedra are those who didn't and reside in Oblivion. Also, it was Trinimac who is described to have removed the heart of Shor, not Akatosh.


Fixed.

Plus, didn't Lorkhan do what he did to try and reach CHIM (or rather, show mortals how to reach it), not for personal gain?

Elves believe he created Mundus just to basically [censored] with everyone. Men believe he created Mundus, so the lesser spirits have a way to become something greater than the gods, and break the cycle of predictability. The former is to be a dike (elves are very self absorbed), the latter is to help everyone else. He failed so that others can learn what not to do, or something like that. last part paraphrased from Vivec.

And then there's what the redguards believe, in that Skatal used to help everyone, but had the hunger of the previous serpent, and began to eat everything. Created a world just for that purpose, and Tall Papa got really angry.